Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Body of Christ?
Catholic Exchange ^ | May 30, 2005 | Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D.

Posted on 05/30/2005 12:57:09 PM PDT by NYer

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 251-297 next last
Dr. D'Ambrosio studied under Avery Cardinal Dulles for his Ph.D. in historical theology and taught for many years at the University of Dallas. He now directs www.crossroadsinitiative.com, which offers Catholic resources for RCIA, adult faith formation, and teens, with a special emphasis on the Year of the Eucharist, the Theology of the Body, the early Church Fathers, and the sacrament of confirmation.
1 posted on 05/30/2005 12:57:09 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...

2 posted on 05/30/2005 1:03:07 PM PDT by NYer ("Love without truth is blind; Truth without love is empty." - Pope Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Thanks for the ping.

God has fulfilled every promise He's made and His Covenant is still valid to the Chosen. When God "speaks", creation happens. I have no doubt in the Word of God.

While the world goes schizophrenic, those with a devotion to the Holy Eucharist will be able to keep sanity. Those who attack God's Goodness will be driven into their own self-destructive hell of madness.


3 posted on 05/30/2005 1:07:54 PM PDT by SaltyJoe ("Social Justice" begins with the unborn child. "Seamless garment" is a stolen article from Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Meditation on Jesus in the Eucharist

Oh my Lord,
I see you there, o Jesus,
in the form of bread,
so fragile,
so vunerable,
You, at whose name every knee will bow,
You, who sit at the right hand of the Father,
and yet are willing to come here,
feed us,
share with us,
wait with us.
You let yourself be broken
every day
for love of us.
Lord God,
Lamb of God
You take away the sins of the world,
yet to save our souls,
you feed us
with yourself.
O my hidden Jesus,
such a limitless love!
I weep with joy and sorrow,
I cringe with shame
but arise with wonder
that someone
would care so much,
would do so much
for someone
nowhere near worthy!


4 posted on 05/30/2005 1:12:38 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Is this similar to conservative Lutheran teaching which says the Body and Blood of Christ are present supernaturally? Or maybe I should ask, how is it different?
Curious.
5 posted on 05/30/2005 1:20:55 PM PDT by labette (to hit the ball and touch em all, a moment in the sun.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: labette

Catholics believe that the bread and wine become the very body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ, even though it looks like bread and wine...this is transubstantiation.

What you described is consubstantiation. "According to it, the substance of Christ's Body exists together with the substance of bread, and in like manner the substance of His Blood together with the substance of wine." - from the Catholic Encyclopedia


6 posted on 05/30/2005 1:28:16 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

Thank you.


7 posted on 05/30/2005 1:31:01 PM PDT by labette (to hit the ball and touch em all, a moment in the sun.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

Adoro te devote

O Godhead hid, devoutly I adore Thee,
Who truly art within the forms before me;
To Thee my heart I bow with bended knee,
As failing quite in contemplating Thee.

Sight, touch, and taste in Thee are each deceived;
The ear alone most safely is believed:
I believe all the Son of God has spoken,
Than Truth's own word there is no truer token.

God only on the Cross lay hid from view;
But here lies hid at once the Manhood too:
And I, in both professing my belief,
Make the same prayer as the repentant thief.

Thy wounds, as Thomas saw, I do not see;
Yet Thee confess my Lord and God to be:
Make me believe Thee ever more and more;
In Thee my hope, in Thee my love to store.

O thou Memorial of our Lord's own dying!
O Bread that living art and vivifying!
Make ever Thou my soul on Thee to live;
Ever a taste of Heavenly sweetness give.

O loving Pelican! O Jesu, Lord!
Unclean I am, but cleanse me in Thy Blood;
Of which a single drop, for sinners spilt,
Is ransom for a world's entire guilt.

Jesu! Whom for the present veil'd I see,
What I so thirst for, O vouchsafe to me:
That I may see Thy countenance unfolding,
And may be blest Thy glory in beholding. Amen.

(St. Thomas Aquinas, tr. E. Caswall.)


Adoro te devote, latens Deitas,
Quae sub his figuris vere latitas;
Tibi se cor meum totum subiicit,
Quia te contemplans, totum deficit.

Visus, tactus, gustus in te fallitur,
Sed auditu solo tuto creditur;
Credo quidquid dixit Dei Filius,
Nil hoc verbo veritatis verius.

In Cruce latebat sola Deitas.
At hic latet simul et humanitas:
Ambo tamen credens, atgue confitens,
Peto quod petivit latro paenitens.

Plagas, sicut Thomas, non intueor,
Deum tamen meum te confiteor:
Fac me tibi semper magis credere,
In te spem habere, te diligere.

O memoriale mortis Domini,
Panis vivus vitam praestans homini:
Praesta meae menti de te vivere,
Et te illi semper dulce sapere.

Pie pellicane Iesu Domine,
Me immundum munda tuo Sanguine:
Cuius una stilla salvum facere
Totum mundum quit ab omni scelere.

Iesu, quem velatum nunc aspicio,
Oro, fiat illud, quod tam sitio,
Ut te revelata cernens facie,
Visu sim beatus tuae gloriae. Amen.


8 posted on 05/30/2005 1:31:24 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Great post.

As I've said in the past, when Christ said "This is my Body", we Catholics don't have to debate what the meaning of "is" is.


9 posted on 05/30/2005 1:32:13 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Choose life!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum; labette
From Luther's Large Catechism

8] Now, what is the Sacrament of the Altar?

Answer: It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, in and under the bread and wine which we Christians are commanded by the Word of Christ to eat and to drink. 9] And as we have said of Baptism that it is not simple water, so here also we say the Sacrament is bread and wine, but not mere bread and wine, such as are ordinarily served at the table, but bread and wine comprehended in, and connected with, the Word of God.

10] It is the Word (I say) which makes and distinguishes this Sacrament, so that it is not mere bread and wine, but is, and is called, the body and blood of Christ. For it is said: Accedat verbum ad elementum, et fit sacramentum. If the Word be joined to the element, it becomes a Sacrament. This saying of St. Augustine is so properly and so well put that he has scarcely said anything better. The Word must make a Sacrament of the element, else it remains a mere element. 11] Now, it is not the word or ordinance of a prince or emperor, but of the sublime Majesty, at whose feet all creatures should fall, and affirm it is as He says, and accept it with all reverence, fear, and humility.

12] With this Word you can strengthen your conscience and say: If a hundred thousand devils, together with all fanatics, should rush forward, crying, How can bread and wine be the body and blood of Christ? etc., I know that all spirits and scholars together are not as wise as is the Divine Majesty in His little finger. 13] Now here stands the Word of Christ: Take, eat; this is My body; Drink ye all of it; this is the new testament in My blood, etc. Here we abide, and would like to see those who will constitute themselves His masters, and make it different from what He has spoken. It is true, indeed, that if you take away the Word or regard it without the words, you have nothing but mere bread and wine. 14] But if the words remain with them, as they shall and must, then, in virtue of the same, it is truly the body and blood of Christ. For as the lips of Christ say and speak, so it is, as He can never lie or deceive.

10 posted on 05/30/2005 1:39:30 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: FatherofFive

Now wait a minute....to use the words of William the Slick in a theological discussion is, well.....uh...blasphemy? LOL


11 posted on 05/30/2005 1:39:52 PM PDT by labette (to hit the ball and touch em all, a moment in the sun.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: NYer; Salvation; All

"St. Thomas said the Eucharist is the one change we encounter that is exactly the opposite. The appearances of bread and wine stay the same, but the very essence of these realities, which can’t be viewed by a microscope, is totally transformed. What starts as bread and wine becomes Christ’s body and blood. A handy word was coined to describe this unique change. Transformation of the “sub-stance”, what “stands-under” the surface, came to be called “transubstantiation.”

What makes this happen? The Spirit and the Word. After praying for the Holy Spirit to come (epiklesis), the priest, who stands in the place of Christ, repeats the words of the God-man: “This is my Body, This is my Blood.” Sounds like Genesis 1 to me: the mighty wind (read “Spirit”) whips over the surface of the water and God’s Word resounds. “Let there be light” and there was light. It is no harder to believe in the Eucharist than to believe in Creation.

But why did Jesus arrange for this transformation of bread and wine? Because he intended another kind of transformation. The bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ which are, in turn, meant to transform us. Ever hear the phrase: “you are what you eat?” The Lord desires us to be transformed from a motley crew of imperfect individuals into the Body of Christ, come to full stature.

Our evangelical brethren speak often of an intimate, personal relationship with Jesus. But I ask you, how much more personal and intimate than the Eucharist can you get? We receive the Lord’s body into our physical body that we may become him whom we receive!

Such an awesome gift deserves its own feast. And that’s why, back in the days of Thomas Aquinas and St. Francis of Assisi, the Pope decided to institute the Feast of Corpus Christi."Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!Thank you


12 posted on 05/30/2005 1:42:11 PM PDT by anonymoussierra (In te credo, in te spero, te amo, te adoro, beata Trinitas unus Deus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: labette

You might be amazed at how many pages of ink have been spent on the meaning of IS in just this particular context...(Slick Willie's wordplay is jonny-come-lately compared to this).


13 posted on 05/30/2005 1:42:55 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

I'm coming to believe that consubstantiation is a copout. Either the True Body and Blood are present or they are not.

The reason they cannot be found under a microscope is, Ichabod! The spirit of the Lord has left this place!


14 posted on 05/30/2005 1:46:27 PM PDT by johnb838 (Liberalism = Leninism.... Liberalism = Bolshevism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: All

Most interesting, the people you meet and the things you can learn here while taking a break from lawn mowing.


15 posted on 05/30/2005 1:46:46 PM PDT by labette (to hit the ball and touch em all, a moment in the sun.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: anonymoussierra

From the Lauda Sion sequence:

Dogma datur Christianis,
quod in carnem transit panis,
et vinum in sanguinem.
Quod no capis, quod non vides,
animosa firmat fides,
praeter rerum ordinem.

(This is a dogma given
to Christians that bread is
changed into Jesus' flesh,
and wine into his blood.
What you do not understand,
what you do not see, a lively
faith confirms in a super-
natural manner.)

Sub diversis speciebus,
signis tantum, et non rebus,
latent res eximiae.
Caro cibus, sanguis potus:
manet tamen Christus totus
sub utraque specie.

(Under different species,
which are but signs, not
real things, a priceless
treasure lies hidden.
His flesh is food, his blood
is drink: yet Christ remains
entire under each species.)

A sumente non concisus,
non confractus, non divisus,
integer accipitur.
Sumit unus, sumunt mille,
quantum isti, tantum ille,
nec sumptus consumitur.

(He who partakes of him
neither severs, nor breaks, nor
divides him; he receives him
entire.
Whether one or a thousand
receive him, one receives as
much as a thousand do: and when
received he is not diminished.)

Sumunt boni, sumunt mali:
sorte tamen inaequali,
vitae, vel interitus.
Mors est malis, vita bonis:
vide paris sumptionis
quam sit dispar exitus.

(Both the good and the wicked
receive him: but with the unequal
result of life or death.
He brings death to the unworthy,
and life to the just: see how unlike
are the effects of a like communion.)

Fracto demum sacrmento
ne vacilles, sed memento
tantum esse sub fragmento
quantum toto tegitur.
Nulla rei fit scissura:
signi tantum fit fractura,
qua nec status nec statura
signati minuitur.

(Then indeed when the bread is
broken, doubt not, but remember that
there is as much in one fragment
as lies hidden in the whole.
There is no division of the substance
itself, but only a breaking of the
species, by which neither the state
nor the size of the substance signified is altered.)

whole piece here: http://www.sjbrcc.org/praise.html


16 posted on 05/30/2005 1:52:09 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

Thank you


17 posted on 05/30/2005 2:02:44 PM PDT by anonymoussierra (In te credo, in te spero, te amo, te adoro, beata Trinitas unus Deus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

I guess we are fortunate our Lord and Savior didn't use salt and pepper shakers at the dinner table to explain the concept of the Trinity, otherwise RCC over the world would idolize the salt and pepper shakers.


18 posted on 05/30/2005 2:03:58 PM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: NYer

To me, the difference between item X being a mere symbol of item Y, versus item X actually becoming item Y but retaining all of the physical properties of X, is a semantic one.


19 posted on 05/30/2005 2:07:35 PM PDT by Sloth (I don't post a lot of the threads you read; I make a lot of the threads you read better.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Good post. Christ telling his followers they would have to eat of His Flesh and drink of His Blood is the single biggest reason I converted to Catholic.

It is also the single biggest reason I see Protestants as lukewarm Christians (no matter how fervent or zealous), it pains me to see it this way. I am the only Catholic in my family and all those who have passed have no chance to rethink this now. Remember Christ speaking of things hot and things cold but He will spit out the lukewarm.
20 posted on 05/30/2005 2:08:30 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: labette

"to use the words of William the Slick in a theological discussion is, well.....uh...blasphemy? LOL"

It gets worse. I first used that line in a witness talk at a welcoming ultrea IN A CHURCH! Since I wasn't struck down, I felt it was acceptable with Him.


21 posted on 05/30/2005 2:51:45 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Choose life!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Cvengr

"I guess we are fortunate our Lord and Savior didn't use salt and pepper shakers at the dinner table to explain the concept of the Trinity"

Well this makes no sense whatsoever.


22 posted on 05/30/2005 2:53:53 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Choose life!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Cvengr

"this do in remembrance of me."


23 posted on 05/30/2005 2:54:31 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: rwfromkansas

fully agree.

I found the best understanding of the Eucharist is by reading His Word and gleaning how He presented it.


24 posted on 05/30/2005 2:56:15 PM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Mark in the Old South

On the Eucharistic Lord at the Elevation

Lord, in your servant's hands,
you are lifted up,
high for all to see,
like so long ago, you were lifted up
upon the cross.
a spectacle meant to shame and kill,
but instead, brought life.

And in your priest's hands,
Glowing like a soft white beacon in the night,
you become our life,
the food for our famished souls,
the drink for our parched spirit
lost for too long in the desert.

O life-giving Master,
who feeds us again and again with his own self,
who waits day in and out
vunerable,accessible,
yet Lord of the universe,
to join us in joy
out of pure love.

Deo Gratis!


25 posted on 05/30/2005 2:58:16 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Cvengr

Agreed. I can understand how one would look at it and say, ah ha, it is literal, but the way he presented it as a remembrance, it is difficult to see it as literal.


26 posted on 05/30/2005 3:04:13 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

In the Eucharist, Christ is really present among us. His presence is not static. It is a dynamic presence, which makes us his, he assimilates us to himself. Augustine understood this very well. Coming from a Platonic formation, it was difficult for him to accept the "incarnate" dimension of Christianity. In particular, he reacted before the prospect of the "Eucharistic meal," which seemed to him unworthy of God. In ordinary meals man becomes stronger, as it is he who assimilates the food, making it an element of his own corporal reality. Only later did Augustine understand that in the Eucharist the exact opposite occurs: the center is Christ who attracts us to himself; he makes us come out of ourselves to make us one with him (cf. Confessions, VII, 10, 16). In this way, he introduces us into the community of brothers.

Here we are faced with a further dimension of the Eucharist, which I would like to touch upon before concluding. The Christ whom we encounter in the sacrament is the same here in Bari, as in Rome, as in Europe, America, Africa, Asia, Oceania. He is the one and same Christ who is present in the Eucharistic bread everywhere on earth. This means that we can only encounter him together with all others. We can only receive him in unity.

Is not this what the Apostle Paul said to us in the reading we just heard? Writing to the Corinthians, he affirmed: "Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread" (1 Corinthians 10:17). The consequence is clear: We cannot commune with the Lord if we do not commune among ourselves. If we wish to present ourselves to him, we must go out to meet one another. To do so, the great lesson of forgiveness is necessary. We must not allow the destructive larva of resentment to take hold of our spirit, but open our heart to the magnanimity of listening to the other, of understanding, of the possible acceptance of his apologies, of the generous offering of our own.

Pope Benedict XVI


27 posted on 05/30/2005 3:07:38 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

If one wants to believe that the bible means that the bread is literally the body of Christ and that the wine is literally his blood then it would seem that literally ONLY the bread Christ actually had at the time was his body and ONLY the wine that he had at the time was his blood. That's what the bible says.

Christ had specific bread and said THIS IS my body. He didn't say any other bread was his body, but that bread that he held and that bread alone.

28 posted on 05/30/2005 3:13:54 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Sing, my tongue,
The mystery of the glorious body,
And of the precious Blood,
Shed to save the world,
By the King of the nations,
The fruit of a noble womb.

Given to us, born for us,
From a stainless Virgin,
And having dwelt in the world,
Sowing the seed of the word,
He closed in a wonderful way,
The days of his habitation.

On the night of His last supper,
Reclining with His brothers,
The law having been fully observed
With legal foods,
He gives Himself as food with His
Own hands to the twelve.

The Word in Flesh makes true Bread
His Flesh with a word;
Wine becomes the Blood of Christ,
And if sense is deficient,
To confirm sincere hearts,
Faith alone suffices.

Then let us prostrate and
Venerate so great a Sacrament,
And let the old law yield
To the new rite;
Let faith stand forward to
Supply the defect of the senses.

To the Begetter and the Begotten,
Be praise and jubilation,
Health, honor, and strength,
And blessing too,
And let equal praise be to Him,
Who proceeds from Both.
Amen. Alleluia.

Pange lingua gloriosi
Corporis mysterium,
Sanguinisque pretiosi,
Quem in mundi pretium
Fructus ventris generosi
Rex effudit Gentium.

Nobis datus, nobis natus
Ex inacta Virgine,
Et in mundo conversatus,
Sparso verbi semine,
Sui moras incolatus
Miro clausit ordine.

In suprema nocte coenae
Recumbus cum fratribus
Observata lege plene
Cibis in legalibus,
Cibum turbae duodenae
Se dat suis manibus.

Verbum caro, panem verum
Verbo carnem efficit:
Fitque sanguis Christi merum,
Et si sensus deficit,
Ad firmandum cor sincerum
Sola fides sufficit.

Tantum ergo Sacramentum
Veneremur cernui:
Et antiquum documentum
Novo cedat ritui:
Praestet fides supplementum
Sensuum defectui.

Genitori, Genitoque
Laus et jubilatio,
Salus, honor, virtus quoque
Sit et benedictio:
Procedenti ab utroque
Compar sit laudatio.
Amen. Alleluia.

St. Thomas Aquinas


29 posted on 05/30/2005 3:14:13 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Sloth
To me, the difference between item X being a mere symbol of item Y, versus item X actually becoming item Y but retaining all of the physical properties of X, is a semantic one.

I knew without looking that you're not a lit major -- "mere" symbol indeed! And the Eucharist is the perfect symbol -- it is what it symbolizes.

If you think the difference is semantic, you don't really accept that X has become Y: if the physical properties are all there is, then it hasn't.

30 posted on 05/30/2005 3:14:37 PM PDT by maryz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: rwfromkansas; Cvengr; Knitting A Conundrum

Guys, do you suppose that +Ignatius of Antioch, disciple of the Apostle John, appointed Bishop of Antioch by +Peter and reputed by pious tradition to have been the child who sat on Christ's lap could have gotten it wrong when, in about 100 AD he wrote:

"They [i.e. the Gnostics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again." (Letter to Smyrneans 7:1)

As an Orthodox Christian I can't tell you the "how" of this, Aquinas notwithstanding, except to say that it happens by the power of the Holy Spirit. I can also tell you that The Church has always and everywhere believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.


31 posted on 05/30/2005 3:17:35 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

ST. CLEMENT OF ROME (c. 80 A.D.)

Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have OFFERED ITS SACRIFICES [or offered the gifts, referring to the Eucharist]. (Letter to Corinthians 44:4)




ST. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH (c. 110 A.D.)

I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the Bread of God, WHICH IS THE FLESH OF JESUS CHRIST, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I DESIRE HIS BLOOD, which is love incorruptible. (Letter to Romans 7:3)

Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: FOR THERE IS ONE FLESH OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, and one cup IN THE UNION OF HIS BLOOD; one ALTAR, as there is one bishop with the presbytery... (Letter to Philadelphians 4:1)

They [i.e. the Gnostics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that THE EUCHARIST IS THE FLESH OF OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. (Letter to Smyrn 7:1)




ST. JUSTIN THE MARTYR (c. 100 - 165 A.D.)

We call this food Eucharist; and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [Baptism], and is thereby living as Christ has enjoined.

For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by Him, AND BY THE CHANGE OF WHICH our blood and flesh is nourished, IS BOTH THE FLESH AND THE BLOOD OF THAT INCARNATED JESUS. (First Apology 66)

Moreover, as I said before, concerning the sacrifices which you at that time offered, God speaks through Malachi [1:10-12]...It is of the SACRIFICES OFFERED TO HIM IN EVERY PLACE BY US, the Gentiles, that is, OF THE BREAD OF THE EUCHARIST AND LIKEWISE OF THE CUP OF THE EUCHARIST, that He speaks at that time; and He says that we glorify His name, while you profane it. (Dialogue with Trypho 41)




ST. IRENAEUS (c. 140 - 202 A.D.)

...He took from among creation that which is bread, and gave thanks, saying, "THIS IS MY BODY." The cup likewise, which is from among the creation to which we belong, HE CONFESSED TO BE HIS BLOOD.

He taught THE NEW SACRIFICE OF THE NEW COVENANT, of which Malachi, one of the twelve prophets, had signified beforehand: [quotes Mal 1:10-11]. By these words He makes it plain that the former people will cease to make offerings to God; BUT THAT IN EVERY PLACE SACRIFICE WILL BE OFFERED TO HIM, and indeed, a pure one; for His name is glorified among the Gentiles. (Against Heresies 4:17:5)

But what consistency is there in those who hold that the bread over which thanks have been given IS THE BODY OF THEIR LORD, and the cup HIS BLOOD, if they do not acknowledge that He is the Son of the Creator... How can they say that the flesh which has been nourished BY THE BODY OF THE LORD AND BY HIS BLOOD gives way to corruption and does not partake of life? ...For as the bread from the earth, receiving the invocation of God, IS NO LONGER COMMON BREAD BUT THE EUCHARIST, consisting of two elements, earthly and heavenly... (Against Heresies 4:18:4-5)

If the BODY be not saved, then, in fact, neither did the Lord redeem us with His BLOOD; and neither is the cup of the EUCHARIST THE PARTAKING OF HIS BLOOD nor is the bread which we break THE PARTAKING OF HIS BODY...He has declared the cup, a part of creation, TO BE HIS OWN BLOOD, from which He causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, HE HAS ESTABLISHED AS HIS OWN BODY, from which He gives increase to our bodies.

When, therefore, the mixed cup and the baked bread receives the Word of God and BECOMES THE EUCHARIST, THE BODY OF CHRIST, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, WHICH IS ETERNAL LIFE -- flesh which is nourished BY THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD...receiving the Word of God, BECOMES THE EUCHARIST, WHICH IS THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST... (Against Heresies 5:2:2-3)




TERTULLIAN (c. 155 - 250 A.D.)

Likewise, in regard to days of fast, many do not think they should be present at the SACRIFICIAL prayers, because their fast would be broken if they were to receive THE BODY OF THE LORD...THE BODY OF THE LORD HAVING BEEN RECEIVED AND RESERVED, each point is secured: both the participation IN THE SACRIFICE... (Prayer 19:1)

The flesh feeds on THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST, so that the SOUL TOO may fatten on God. (Resurrection of the Dead 8:3)

The Sacrament of the Eucharist, which the Lord commanded to be taken at meal times and by all, we take even before daybreak in congregations... WE OFFER SACRIFICES FOR THE DEAD on their birthday anniversaries.... We take anxious care lest something of our Cup or Bread should fall upon the ground... (The Crown 3:3-4)

A woman, after the death of her husband, is bound not less firmly but even more so, not to marry another husband...Indeed, she prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, SHE OFFERS THE SACRIFICE. (Monogamy 10:1,4)




ORIGEN (c. 185 - 254 A.D.)

We give thanks to the Creator of all, and, along with thanksgiving and prayer for the blessings we have received, we also eat the bread presented to us; and this bread BECOMES BY PRAYER A SACRED BODY, which sanctifies those who sincerely partake of it. (Against Celsus 8:33)

You see how the ALTARS are no longer sprinkled with the blood of oxen, but consecrated BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST. (Homilies on Josue 2:1)

But if that text (Lev 24:5-9) is taken to refer to the greatness of what is mystically symbolized, then there is a 'commemoration' which has an EFFECT OF GREAT PROPITIATORY VALUE. If you apply it to that 'Bread which came down from heaven and gives life to the world,' that shewbread which 'God has offered to us as a means of reconciliation, in virtue of faith, ransoming us with his blood,' and if you look to that commemoration of which the Lord says, 'Do this in commemoration of me,' then you will find that this is the unique commemoration WHICH MAKES GOD PROPITIOUS TO MEN. (Homilies on Leviticus 9)

You are accustomed to take part in the divine mysteries, so you know how, when you have received THE BODY OF THE LORD, you reverently exercise every care lest a particle of it fall, and lest anything of the consecrated gift perish....how is it that you think neglecting the word of God a lesser crime than neglecting HIS BODY? (Homilies on Exodus 13:3)

...now, however, in full view, there is the true food, THE FLESH OF THE WORD OF GOD, as He Himself says: "MY FLESH IS TRULY FOOD, AND MY BLOOD IS TRULY DRINK." (Homilies on Numbers 7:2)




ST. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (c. 150 - 216 A.D.)

Calling her children about her, she [the Church] nourishes them with holy milk, that is, with the Infant Word...The Word is everything to a child: both Father and Mother, both Instructor and Nurse. "EAT MY FLESH," He says, "AND DRINK MY BLOOD." The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutriments. HE DELIVERS OVER HIS FLESH, AND POURS OUT HIS BLOOD; and nothing is lacking for the growth of His children. O incredible mystery! (Instructor of Children 1:6:42,1,3)




ST. CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE (c. 200 - 258 A.D.)

And we ask that this Bread be given us daily, so that we who are in Christ and daily receive THE EUCHARIST AS THE FOOD OF SALVATION, may not, by falling into some more grievous sin and then in abstaining from communicating, be withheld from the heavenly Bread, and be separated from Christ's Body...

He Himself warns us, saying, "UNLESS YOU EAT THE FLESH OF THE SON OF MAN AND DRINK HIS BLOOD, YOU SHALL NOT HAVE LIFE IN YOU." Therefore do we ask that our Bread, WHICH IS CHRIST, be given to us daily, so that we who abide and live in Christ may not withdraw from His sanctification and from His Body. (The Lord's Prayer 18)

Also in the priest Melchisedech we see THE SACRAMENT OF THE SACRIFICE OF THE LORD prefigured...The order certainly is that which comes from his [Mel's] sacrifice and which comes down from it: because Mel was a priest of the Most High God; because he offered bread; and because he blessed Abraham. And who is more a priest of the Most High God than our Lord Jesus Christ, who, WHEN HE OFFERED SACRIFICE TO GOD THE FATHER, OFFERED THE VERY SAME WHICH MELCHISEDECH HAD OFFERED, NAMELY BREAD AND WINE, WHICH IS IN FACT HIS BODY AND BLOOD! (Letters 63:4)

If Christ Jesus, our Lord and God, is Himself the High Priest of God the Father; AND IF HE OFFERED HIMSELF AS A SACRIFICE TO THE FATHER; AND IF HE COMMANDED THAT THIS BE DONE IN COMMEMORATION OF HIMSELF -- then certainly the priest, who imitates that which Christ did, TRULY FUNCTIONS IN PLACE OF CHRIST. (Letters 63:14)


32 posted on 05/30/2005 3:19:22 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

I will be honest, it is very hard to imagine that somebody that early would have erred.

But, it is really hard for me to accept that view.


33 posted on 05/30/2005 3:31:53 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM (c. 344 - 407 A.D.)

When you see the Lord IMMOLATED and lying upon the ALTAR, and the priest bent over that SACRIFICE praying, and all the people empurpled by that PRECIOUS BLOOD, can you think that you are still among men and on earth? Or are you not lifted up to heaven? (Priesthood 3:4:177)

Reverence, therefore, reverence this table, of which we are all communicants! Christ, slain for us, the SACRIFICIAL VICTIM WHO IS PLACED THEREON! (Homilies on Romans 8:8)

Christ is present. The One [Christ] who prepared that [Holy Thursday] table is the very One who now prepares this [altar] table. For it is not a man who makes the SACRIFICIAL GIFTS BECOME the Body and Blood of Christ, but He that was crucified for us, Christ Himself. The priest stands there carrying out the action, but the power and the grace is of God, "THIS IS MY BODY," he says. This statement TRANSFORMS the gifts. (Homilies on Treachery of Judas 1:6)

Let us therefore in all respects put our faith in God and contradict Him in nothing, even if what is said seems to be contrary to our reasonings and to what we see. Let His WORD be of superior authority to reason and sight. This too be our practice in respect to the [Eucharistic] Mysteries, not looking only upon what is laid out before us, but taking heed also of His WORDS. For His WORD cannot deceive; but our senses are easily cheated. His WORD never failed; our senses err most of the time. When the WORD says, "THIS IS MY BODY," be convinced of it and believe it, and look at it with the eyes of the mind. For Christ did not give us something tangible, but even in His tangible things all is intellectual. So too with Baptism: the gift is bestowed through what is a tangible thing, water; but what is accomplished is intellectually perceived: the REBIRTH and the RENEWAL....How many now say, "I wish I could see his shape, His appearance, His garments, His sandals." ONLY LOOK! YOU SEE HIM! YOU TOUCH HIM! YOU EAT HIM! (Homilies on Matthew 82:4)

Take care, then, lest you too become guilty of the Body and Blood of Christ [1 Cor 11:27]. They slaughtered His most holy body; but you, after such great benefits, receive HIM into a filthy soul. For it was not enough for Him to be made Man, to be struck and to be slaughtered, but He even mingles Himself with us; and this NOT BY FAITH ONLY, but even in every DEED He makes us His BODY. How very pure, then, ought he not be, who enjoys the benefit of this SACRIFICE? (ibid 82:5)

...if everywhere grace required worthiness, there could neither then be Baptism nor Body of Christ nor the sacrifice priests offer.....now He has transferred the priestly action [of ancient times] to what is most awesome and magnificent. He has changed the sacrifice itself, and instead of the butchering of dumb beasts, He commands the offering up of Himself....What is that Bread? The Body of Christ! What do they become who are partakers therein? The Body of Christ! Not many bodies, but one Body....For you are not nourished by one Body while someone else is nourished by another Body; rather, all are nourished by the same Body....When you see [the Body of Christ] lying on the altar, say to yourself, "Because of this Body I am no longer earth and ash, no longer a prisoner, but free. Because of this Body I hope for heaven, and I hope to receive the good things that are in heaven, immortal life, the lot of the angels, familiar conversation with Christ. This Body, scourged and crucified, has not been fetched by death...This is that Body which was blood-stained, which was pierced by a lance, and from which gushed forth those saving fountains, one of blood and the other of water, for all the world"...This is the Body which He gave us, both to hold in reserve and to eat, which was appropriate to intense love; for those whom we kiss with abandon we often even bite with our teeth. (Homilies on Corinthians 8, 1[2]; 24, 2[3]; 24, 2[4]; 24, 4[7])

"So also was Christ offered once." [Hebrews 7-10] By whom was He offered? Quite evidently, by Himself. Here [Paul] shows that Christ was not Priest only, but also Victim and Sacrifice. Therein do we find the reason for the words "was offered." "He was offered once," [Paul] says, "to take away the sins of many." Why does he say of many and not of all? Because not all have believed. He did indeed die for all, for the salvation of all, which was His part....But He did not take away the sins of all men, because they did not will it....What then? Do we not offer daily? Yes, we offer, but making remembrance of His death; and this remembrance is one and not many. How is it one and not many? Because this Sacrifice is offered once, like that in the Holy of Holies. This Sacrifice is a type of that, and this remembrance a type of that. We offer always the same, not one sheep now and another tomorrow, but the same thing always. Thus there is one Sacrifice. By this reasoning, since the Sacrifice is offered everywhere, are there, then, a multiplicity of Christs? By no means! Christ is one everywhere. He is complete here, complete there, one Body. And just as He is one Body and not many though offered everywhere, so too is there one Sacrifice. (Homilies on Hebrews 17, 2[4]; 17, 3[6])

Not in vain was it decreed BY THE APOSTLES that in the awesome Mysteries remembrance should be made of the DEPARTED. They knew that here there was much gain for them, much benefit. For when the entire people stands with hands uplifted, a priestly assembly, and that awesome SACRIFICIAL VICTIM is laid out, how, when we are calling upon God, should we not succeed in their defense? But this is done for those who have DEPARTED in the faith, while even the catechumens are not reckoned as worthy of this consolation, but are deprived of every means of assistance except one. And what is that? We may give alms to the poor on their behalf. (Homilies on Philippians 3:4)


34 posted on 05/30/2005 3:35:34 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: rwfromkansas

We BELIEVE because Christ has said so. We pray that we might understand. Mysteries are this way.

Frank


35 posted on 05/30/2005 3:43:55 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: rwfromkansas

"I can understand how one would look at it and say, ah ha, it is literal, but the way he presented it as a remembrance, it is difficult to see it as literal."

Having a problem with believing the Lord's Word? "Whoever eats of this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh." John 6:52

How can someone say that Jesus is talking about His teachings, or that we are to remember Him symbolically? Why did the Jews question Jesus and walk away from Him? They knew darn well what He was talking about. Those who think they know better than the men standing right there 2000 years ago need to reconsider the arrogance of that proposition. Perhaps those who disbelieve Jesus' very clear words should ask themselves WHY they refuse to believe the interpretation held by the entire Church since the very beginnning.

Regards


36 posted on 05/30/2005 3:44:50 PM PDT by jo kus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Sloth

Unless the consecrated host bleeds (which it has done in certain miracles) or taken on the form of real flesh upon the altar (which it has also done). In both cases, the blood present was type AB and the tissue was found to be cardiac tissue-heart muscle.

We report, you decide.

Frank


37 posted on 05/30/2005 3:47:13 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

St. Clement of Alexandria studied under Pantaenus. He later succeeded him as the director of the school of catechumens in Alexandria, Egypt around the year 200 A.D.,

"The Blood of the Lord, indeed, is twofold. There is His corporeal Blood, by which we are redeemed from corruption; and His spiritual Blood, that with which we are anointed. That is to say, to drink the Blood of Jesus is to share in His immortality. The strength of the Word is the Spirit just as the blood is the strength of the body. Similarly, as wine is blended with water, so is the Spirit with man. The one, the Watered Wine, nourishes in faith, while the other, the Spirit, leads us on to immortality. The union of both, however, - of the drink and of the Word, - is called the Eucharist, a praiseworthy and excellent gift. Those who partake of it in faith are sanctified in body and in soul. By the will of the Father, the divine mixture, man, is mystically united to the Spirit and to the Word.",

-"The Instructor of the Children". [2,2,19,4] ante 202 A.D.,


38 posted on 05/30/2005 3:47:24 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

"Christ had specific bread and said THIS IS my body. He didn't say any other bread was his body, but that bread that he held and that bread alone."

You answered your own question in Luke 22:19
"Do THIS in remembrance of ME."

He certainly wasn't talking about a simple passover meal. They were doing that already. What is significant about that? Jesus is obviously fulfilling the promise given in John 6.

Regards


39 posted on 05/30/2005 3:48:18 PM PDT by jo kus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: NYer

You find the greatest things to post! Thank you.

My oldest son was confirmed on Thursday so all of the family was in town to go to the Corpus Christi Mass this weekend. What a cool day to spend with family.


40 posted on 05/30/2005 3:50:33 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (John 6: 51-58)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1406387/posts?page=163#157

I posted this here under another context! In both cases, "incoming" was not far behind! '

The Eucharist is not an easy subject for some to accept. Funny, Christ heard the same thing, "This is a hard thing to accept."

Frank


41 posted on 05/30/2005 3:51:37 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

Well of course! My patron saint, I'll have you know! :) I didn't quote him here because there is an old Protestant notion that the original Church had been perverted by the time the Golden Mouthed came on the scene. Your other cites are of course spot on.


42 posted on 05/30/2005 3:52:56 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

St. Irenaeus succeeded St. Pothinus to become the second bishop of Lyons in 177 A.D. Earlier in his life he studied under St. Polycarp. Considered, one of the greatest theologians of the 2nd century, St. Irenaeus is best known for refuting the Gnostic heresies.


[Christ] has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own Blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own Body, from which he gives increase to our bodies."

Source: St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, 180 A.D.:


"So then, if the mixed cup and the manufactured bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, that is to say, the Blood and Body of Christ, which fortify and build up the substance of our flesh, how can these people claim that the flesh is incapable of receiving God's gift of eternal life, when it is nourished by Christ's Blood and Body and is His member? As the blessed apostle says in his letter to the Ephesians, 'For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones' (Eph. 5:30). He is not talking about some kind of 'spiritual' and 'invisible' man, 'for a spirit does not have flesh an bones' (Lk. 24:39). No, he is talking of the organism possessed by a real human being, composed of flesh and nerves and bones. It is this which is nourished by the cup which is His Blood, and is fortified by the bread which is His Body. The stem of the vine takes root in the earth and eventually bears fruit, and 'the grain of wheat falls into the earth' (Jn. 12:24), dissolves, rises again, multiplied by the all-containing Spirit of God, and finally after skilled processing, is put to human use. These two then receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Christ."

-"Five Books on the Unmasking and Refutation of the Falsely


43 posted on 05/30/2005 3:54:39 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

Golden Mouthed indeed! And always worth reading.


44 posted on 05/30/2005 3:56:07 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum
Most excellent resource I recommend to you.

The Teachings of the Church Fathers, by John R. Willis, S.J., Ignatius Press, 2002. Fr. Willis took the time to cross-reference literally hundreds of issues and to cite in detail what the Fathers had to say. For example, if one looks up Apostolic Succession, he gives 5 or 10 very pertinent citations with dozens of others cross-referenced. It is an invaluable resource and a Herculean effort that took upwards of 20 years to accomplish.


Frank
45 posted on 05/30/2005 3:56:31 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: rwfromkansas

"But, it is really hard for me to accept that view."

Living the Faith isn't easy; theosis very seldom comes to us overnight. Often believing is even harder.

“Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief!” Mark
9:24


46 posted on 05/30/2005 3:58:15 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Frank Sheed

That sounds handy! I have and do read the Fathers, but when you are looking for that particular thing you remember in the back of your mind...it's nice to have a sourcebook.


47 posted on 05/30/2005 4:00:04 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

Excellent!


48 posted on 05/30/2005 4:02:31 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum
It will grow dogeared in time, but it is the best buy for about $22 or so.

Frank
49 posted on 05/30/2005 4:03:32 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Kolokotronis

Amen.


50 posted on 05/30/2005 4:06:05 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 251-297 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson