Posted on 05/30/2005 12:57:09 PM PDT by NYer
You to FatherofFive: That's because you are pre-conditioned to think with a Roman Catholic mind.
Ain't that the truth!
I left this thread about an hour ago, thinking "It is enough". Nevertheless, here's another response.
**You can believe whatever you want, but the clear language of scripture says otherwise.**
I think "ye must be born again" is pretty clear language.
**In the verse 27, “Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord” In verse 29, it uses the exact language “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.” Nothing here about causing others to sin.**
'Nothing here'? How about honoring your demand for context and admit the previous 10 chapters are packed with correction and instruction to a church body struggling with corruption? Paul commands them in 1 Cor. 5:11 "..not to keep company, if any man that is CALLED A BROTHER be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." Yet the faithful (the body of Christ) were eating the Lord's supper in a haphazard way, in the presence of openly sinful brethern.
**Your interpretation requires you to bounce around, cut and paste the verses to make this connection.**
Thou that judgest art guilty of the same??? :)
**I am the Bread of life. Questions. No clarifications, corrections or retractions. Desertion by followers. Those who left understood they Jesus told them to eat the literal flesh of the Lord.**
No, they understood his words, "it is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life."
**It was Peter and company who stayed because they had “knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven”.**
I think Peter's commands in Acts 2:38 are pretty clear as well, yet the RCC does not follow those orders.
"Those that left were not yet, if ever, disciples of Jesus"
Unless, of course, you read and believe the words of the Bible.
John 6:66 "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."
Do you even read the Scripture? How could you miss this?
It is interesting that Martin Luther called those who could not discern the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist DEVILS. And this verse is 6:66. You share beliefs with some interesting company - devils and those that abandoned Christ.
"Who, but the devil, hath granted such a license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposeth upon us by these fanatical men .... Not one of the Fathers, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present. Surely it is not credible, nor possible, since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only; or the body of Christ is not there, especially it being of great importance, that men not be deceived. Certainly in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them, had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present: but they are all of them unanimous."
Martin Luther, tom. vii. Edit. Wittemb. p. 391 (from post 86)
I think "ye must be born again" is pretty clear language.
Again, jumping around and avoiding answering a simple question.
***
“Paul commands them in 1 Cor. 5:11 "..not to keep company, if any man that is CALLED A BROTHER be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." Yet the faithful (the body of Christ) were eating the Lord's supper in a haphazard way, in the presence of openly sinful brethern.”
Again, you have to jump back 5 chapters, cut and paste to come with up with your interpretation. You ignore the literal. Somehow you equate “not discerning the Lord’s body” which is mentioned just two verses this one, with fornicators. The Lord’s supper is not mentioned in 1 Cor. 5. How do you connect these? Jumping around, cutting and pasting.
Try reading the actual scripture.
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 1 Corinthians 11:23-30
There is nothing here that relates to the verse you cited.
***
“Thou that judgest art guilty of the same??? :)”
Huh? I read three verses together, but you consider this jumping around and cutting and pasting? That makes a lot of sense.
***
“No, they understood his words”
* I am the vine. Symbolic language. No one questioned. No one left.
* I am the door. Symbolic language. No one questioned. No one left.
* I am the light. Symbolic language. No one questioned. No one left.
* I am the Bread of life. Lots of questions. In John 6:60 : "Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, ‘This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?’" These were His disciples. No clarifications, corrections or retractions. Desertion by followers. Those who left understood Jesus told them to eat the literal flesh of the Lord. This they could not accept. This is when Judas turned, not being able to accept the literal truth.
***
“I think Peter's commands in Acts 2:38 are pretty clear as well, yet the RCC does not follow those orders.”
Jumping around again, avoiding a simple question.
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Are you saying that the Catholic Church does not believe in Baptism? Wrong again.
"Those that left were not yet, if ever, disciples of Jesus"
Unless, of course, you read and believe the words of the Bible.John 6:66 "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."Okay ... I guess that I thinking 'true' disciple, ... as opposed to simply a follower.
When I speak of a 'true disciple', ... I am referring to whatever it is that distinguished those that stayed with Jesus ... from those that left.
I would propose that the quality which made for the difference is 'faith' (in Jesus), ... which expresses itself in a followship of Jesus, ... whether you understand where He's going or not.
Remember, .... Judas too was 'called' a disciple, ... but Jesus said that He knew that he (Judas) was a devil from the beginning.
It is interesting that Martin Luther called those who could not discern the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist DEVILS. And this verse is 6:66. You share beliefs with some interesting company - devils and those that abandoned Christ.
And you now begin to show your inconsistency.
I thought that your claim was that those that left Jesus believed that He was speaking of offering to them (to consume) His physical flesh and blood.
That is exactly what you believe, ... not I.
I would take more care in presenting my ad hominems.
And though I do not base my christian belief upon Luther (he was a fallible believer ... as am I), ... I would claim to discern the real presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper. For indeed I do ...
Jesus said that where two or more are gathered in His Name, ... He is there present.
As for the bread and wine, I believe that it is a spiritual representation of His body and blood. I have no problem in disagreeing with Luther ... or any other fallible creature ... on that issue.
“When I speak of a 'true disciple', ... I am referring to whatever it is that distinguished those that stayed with Jesus ... from those that left.”
Exactly the point! Those that left found it “hard” to accept the words of Christ.
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?" Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.” John 51-56
"This saying is hard; who can accept it?"
The “true” disciples believed and accepted His literal words.
"those that left Jesus believed that He was speaking of offering to them (to consume) His physical flesh and blood. That is exactly what you believe, ... not I."
OK. Lets look at exactly what Christ said:
I am the living bread…
whoever eats this bread will live forever…
the bread that I will give is my flesh…
unless you eat the flesh…
drink his blood…
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life…
my flesh is true food…
Whoever eats my flesh…
Christ said he is the Bread. Christ said the bread is His flesh. Christ said we must eat His flesh.
This is what Christ said. This is what the followers heard. Those disciples who did not believe it left him.
I am exactly consistent with Scripture and the actual words of Christ. It is you, my friend, who is changing the words of Christ to fit your personal beliefs and traditions.
You can believe “is” means “represents”, but that is not what Christ said.
You can believe “is” means “represents”, but that is not what Christ said.
Actually, ... (and forgive me if I haven't been clearer in past statements) ... I believe that Jesus is our spiritual bread ... through which we receive spiritual life.
I don't believe that Jesus is physical bread.
I believe that Jesus is our spiritual Light.
I don't believe that Jesus is physical light.
I believe that Jesus is our spiritual Door (into the Kingdom of God).
I don't believe that Jesus is a physical door.
I appreciate your sticking on this topic. It is important.
Let me try to understand your context.
If, using your interpretation, when Christ said “For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink”, he meant spiritual or symbolic food.
So, according to your context, Real = Spirit = Symbolic
Questions:
1.Spirit is never used to mean “symbolic” anywhere in the Bible. Please show me an example if I missed one. How do you make this connection?
2.Do we get any benefit besides the physical nutrition from the bread, or a nice warm feeling from sharing the bread at the Lord’s supper?
3.Is it necessary to participate in the Eucharist?
If, using your interpretation, when Christ said “For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink”, he meant spiritual or symbolic food.
So, according to your context, Real = Spirit = Symbolic
Is the spiritual not real to you ?
I believe that Jesus is the sustenance of our spirtural life ... like physical bread is the sustenance of our physical lives.
1.Spirit is never used to mean “symbolic” anywhere in the Bible. Please show me an example if I missed one. How do you make this connection?
I don't use 'spirit' to mean 'symbol'. I believe that there is a spiritual realm of life.
2.Do we get any benefit besides the physical nutrition from the bread, or a nice warm feeling from sharing the bread at the Lord’s supper?
We are blessed in our obedience to the Lord.
And, in the vein of your question, ... may I ask the following ...2.1 Did Adam and Eve fall because of the effects of the eating of the fruit of the tree ... or because they disobeyed God ?3.Is it necessary to participate in the Eucharist?
Yes, it is necessary to participate in the Lord's Supper ... in obedience to the command of Christ ... "do this in my memory".Luke 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
I said: I think "ye must be born again" is pretty clear language.
You said: **Again, jumping around and avoiding answering a simple question.**
The question IS about being 'born again', because remmission of sins is a major step to being 'born again'.
Interesting..,I get accused of not answering a question.
I said more than once (IN CONTEXT with the passage in John 6) 'it is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing'. It's obvious that the disciples that stayed understood what is said in that verse, and that you don't even like to admit it is there. Jesus was trying to make it clear that he was to be spiritually consumed by believers, BY BEING FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me and I in you." John 14:20. That verse is IN CONTEXT with verses 16-26, explaining the coming of the 'Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost'.
Pertaining to 1 Cor. 11:23-30:
**Again, you have to jump back 5 chapters, cut and paste to come with up with your interpretation.**
Spin. I told you that the previous 10 chapters pertain to the church body allowing corruption, and chapter 11 shows the corruption was even in the partaking of Lord's supper, which was done 'in remembrance of him'. I show you a verse in chapter 5 that is an excellent example of the bad behavior present in 'the body', and you dismiss it.
I stand corrected, you don't cut and paste, you just cut. You/your church fathers pull eight verses (1 Cor. 11:23-30) out of the epistle, and say the rest of it is not related to this issue.
**Are you saying that the Catholic Church does not believe in Baptism? Wrong again.**
You've probably heard comments like: 'If your not going to do it right, then you might as well not do it at all.'
If you and your church believed that baptism (by immersion, and only performed on people old enough to know what they are doing)in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST was (and still is) for the REMISSION of SINS, you would obey it, and therefore would not be looking for some other means for remission of sins, such as the 'mass' ritual.
Forgive me if I come across as somewhat blunt, I'm just being straight forward and trying not to be longwinded (I can't be since I'm a very slow typist).
In your response to FatherofFive:
**I thought that your claim was that those that left Jesus believed that He was speaking of offering to them (to consume) His physical flesh and blood.**
That's the way it appears. The ones that stopped following the Lord must have been thinking something like: "We're going to eat this man, as though he's a lamb or a calf?? Eat a man? What would Moses say?". They just let the words, found in verse 63, go in one ear and out the other.
I explained in previous posts (most recently #292) how one gets Jesus inside. Lord knows I tried.
“Did Adam and Eve fall because of the effects of the eating of the fruit of the tree ... or because they disobeyed God?”
Great example, but it doesn’t help your case. It is amazing how the entire scripture works together.
Eating of the fruit or disobeying? This is not an either- or thing. They cannot be separated.
The angels are spirit, and fell because of disobedience. Nothing physical involved.
Adam and Eve fell because of disobedience. They lost eternal life because of a physical act – eating the fruit. Christ later told us that we gain eternal life by a physical act - eating the physical bread turned into the flesh of the Lord. This example shows how God, because we are physical beings, uses physical things to impart His grace and life. Like water in baptism. Like bread. Like wine.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).
They are the literal words of Christ. He could have chosen to have a completly symbolic way to eternal life, but He did not. I don't know why He did it the way he did, but He did what He did and said what He said. He told us all the things necessary for eternal life. Baptism. Faith. Works. Eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. Scripture says so. They are all different. They are all necessary.
Adam and Eve fell because of disobedience. They lost eternal life because of a physical act – eating the fruit. Christ later told us that we gain eternal life by a physical act - eating the physical bread turned into the flesh of the Lord. This example shows how God, because we are physical beings, uses physical things to impart His grace and life. Like water in baptism. Like bread. Like wine.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).
They are the literal words of Christ. He could have chosen to have a completly symbolic way to eternal life, but He did not. I don't know why He did it the way he did, but He did what He did and said what He said. He told us all the things necessary for eternal life. Baptism. Faith. Works. Eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. Scripture says so. They are all different. They are all necessary.
I would assert that we cannot gain spiritual life by physical means ...John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Throughout the gospel of John it is stated that we gain salvation through non-physical means (i.e. God's grace + our belief).
In an attempt to honestly determine whether Jesus' words concerning the offering of His body and blood are to be understood "within the physical realm" ... or "within the spiritual realm", ... I would susggest that you attempt to search for other scripture which supports that view. Remember, no scripture is to be understood outside of the context of scripture. So, if Jesus means that we are to physically consume His physical body and blood to attain our spiritual life, ... there should be other scripture which says the same thing.
The NT is replete with (many) scriptures which affirm that God's grace + our belief are the keys to our salvation.
When you discover other scripture (outside of John 6) ... which appears to say that we must physically consume Jesus' body and blood to gain spiritual life, send me a ping.
“Remember, no scripture is to be understood outside of the context of scripture”
And where is this rule in scripture? This is a tradition of man.
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“there should be other scripture which says the same thing”
So, your rule for interpretation of Scripture says if it not said twice, it should be ignored?
Again, where is this rule in Scripture? This is a tradition of man.
We were warned against people making their own interpretation of Scripture, as you are doing right here --
“Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.” 2Peter 1:20-21
“And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.” 3:15–16
You refuse to accept the plain language of scripture, because “there are some things hard to understand.”
***
“I would assert that we cannot gain spiritual life by physical means ...”
So Christ becoming a physical being was a waste of time? Oh, you mean every physical means except Christ. And that belief is found where in Scripture? Can you not see the similarity between Christ becoming a physical being and His creating the physical Eucharist for us physical beings? It is so clear when you listen to the literal words of scripture without your traditions.
You argue, “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." You say this means that eating the real flesh of Christ is a waste of time. But does this make sense?
Are we to understand that Christ had just commanded his disciples to eat his flesh, then say their doing so would be pointless? Is that what "the flesh is of no avail" means? "Eat my flesh, but it’s a waste of time" No. The literal words mean exactly what they say.
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“When you discover other scripture (outside of John 6)”
You honestly believe we can ignore the words of Christ? Once isn’t enough for you?
Well, 1 Corinthians is pretty clear:
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
Everything preceding “the Lord's body” is speaking about the Lord. “In verse 27, it reads “shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord”. This is followed two lines later to the “damnation” for not discerning the Lord's body.
But, of course, you ignore the clear language and come up with the interpretation that this refers to the Church. If your interpretation is correct, the literal reading is that you eat and drink damnation by eating the Eucharist with your eyes closed (not perceiving the Church.) Your interpretation makes no sense.
***
“The NT is replete with (many) scriptures which affirm that God's grace + our belief are the keys to our salvation.”
Here are some of the things that Scripture says are necessary for eternal life, that you also need to ignore to support your beliefs:
•Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)." (Not everyone who believes will have eternal life)
•“Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" … If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.” Mat 19:16-22 (Keeping the commandments and forsaking those worldly possessions you love is a requirement for eternal life)
•“Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? … See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” James 2: 20,24 (Something useless - Faith without works – will not get you eternal life)
•Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. (Water baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit is required to get into heaven)
•"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life" (Rom. 6:3–4). (Being baptized is required to walk in the new life)
•"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56). (Unless you eat the flesh of Christ you have no eternal life)
But somehow, your traditions say grace and belief are all you need. It is so easy when you choose to ignore the actual words of Christ and the scripture.
•"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56). (Unless you eat the flesh of Christ you have no eternal life)
But somehow, your traditions say grace and belief are all you need. It is so easy when you choose to ignore the actual words of Christ and the scripture.
I haven't ignored the words of Jesus (and I think you know that). ...
I, simply, interpret these words of Jesus (concerning the offering of His body and blood)spiritually ... while you interpret them physically.
And this isn't my 'private' interpretation. There is an entire christian tradition which interprets them the exact way that I do.
“I would assert that we cannot gain spiritual life by physical means ...”
So Christ becoming a physical being was a waste of time? Oh, you mean every physical means except Christ. And that belief is found where in Scripture? Can you not see the similarity between Christ becoming a physical being and His creating the physical Eucharist for us physical beings?
It is Jesus, Himself, Who said ... "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, ... and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Jesus sets the context for us.
Jesus also said, ...John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.I contend that our new life in Christ is a life which is more of the spirit and less of the flesh.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.You are attempting to prove your points with erroneous absolutes. You speak as if everything in the gospel of John (or in all the writings of scripture, for that matter) ... should be interpreted literally and physically ... when even your own tradition does not do so.
...
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
You have disdained (at times ... yet promoted vigorously, at others) the supporting of one's interpretation of scripture with the context of the surrounding passage.
In your zeal, you have attributed sayings to me that I have not said. Fully half of your posting is concerned with issues upon which I have not commented.
I have attempted to have a nuanced and honest discussion of the issue of the Lord's Supper/Eucharist.
One final point ...
“The NT is replete with (many) scriptures which affirm that God's grace + our belief are the keys to our salvation.”
•Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)." (Not everyone who believes will have eternal life)
Not everyone who say to the Master "Lord, Lord" ... is a believer ... remember Judas ...Matthew 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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