Posted on 06/24/2005 6:52:11 PM PDT by RaceBannon
By faith we are saved. Our works determine our rewards. Our works are our testimony, and occur as our desire to please God grows. Acting according to our own inspiration is walking according to the flesh and is not of God.
Do you agree that Paul needed his sins washed away?
I didn't say anything about water. I asked if you agreed that Paul needed his sins washed away. You claimed that the washing away of his sins was a separate act from baptism. If that is the case, then how were his sins washed away?
You are missing an important point here. Paul already beleived, and had been praying and fasting for 3 days before Ananias told him to be baptized and wash away his sins. If it is true that all you have to do is believe, then Paul was already a Christian before Ananias approached him. However, Paul was told to wash away his sins, so he obviously wasn't a Christian. Which is it?
You did not answer my question. Was Paul saved before Ananias told him to be baptized and wash away his sins, or after he did as Ananias told him?
If all that is required is faith, then why was Paul told to be baptized and wash away his sins by Ananias? Remember, he already believed after seeing the Lord on the road to Damascus,and he had been praying and fasting for 3 days.
So you are saying that Paul was saved before he washed away his sins, correct?
In Heaven, Rev. Graham's Crown will make yours look like a tarnished, tin sewing thimble.
5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
If the Scripture does not blame the sower for seed that does not thrive, who are we to do so? Ultimately we are responsible for what we learn and for what we do with that knowledge. Billy Graham is not perfect; I probably would not agree with him on every point, but he appears to have faithfully followed instructions that were given long ago.
Mark 16:15-16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Again, no mention of the disciples being held accountable for those who hear but do not believe.
As a testament of his love.
Teachers will be judged with greater strictness (James 3:1) - which is why we're having this discussion in the first place, to debate whether or not Graham is teaching sound doctrine.
I remember Graham stating in an interview (with Robert Schuller - 1997, I think) that if a person had never heard of Jesus, but still believed in "a" god - Allah, Buddah, etc - they would still go to heaven. If Graham truly meant what he said by that, I suspect his teachings, as they don't hold to the Truth of the Word of God.
>>(1) they were not all that serious and did not actually exercise faith,<<
I would venture that more often than not, this is the case. An indwelling Spirit produces fruit - I can't see the Lord calling someone, effectually changing their heart, opening their eyes to Truth, then giving them the "thumbs-up" when they don't live accordingly. I can't think of any Biblical instance where the transformation wasn't immediate and lasting in a true conversion.
However, since we cannot obviously know the hearts of all men, we cannot claim one way or the other what's actually happened to someone making an altar call. However, we can certainly glean an indication as to the long-lasting effects of Graham's crusades when we see the fruit of those who made such calls. Are they producing fruit and keeping in scripture?
My mind goes to the murderer who escaped from court and was eventually ministered to by a woman reading Warren's the Purpose Driven Life. The media went nuts claiming that this man was "saved" by this woman, and the reading of the book that changed his life. Come to find out several weeks later, he had made a jail-house conversion to Islam. Fruit of the spirit, or way of the flesh?
>>It was his faith, once delivered that will save him.<<
Again, provided it was legitimate, and not merely an emotional response.
And I would probably agree with you. OTOH the mere fact that a man would turn from a life of sin and walk the aisle to repentance is something we need to take seriously. The devil is often (always) there ready to attack the new beleiver the very second that guy gets home and please note that backsliding is not reserved only for those who have been in the faith for decades. The prodigal son was obviously still in his youth when he drifted off the plantation. But he came back because he was a son. I do not believe that backsliders lose their salvation nor do I believe that everyone who looks holy in church every Sunday is a legitimate Christian.
The thing is we really can't tell and thus we have to assume that everyone who gives their life to Christ in a public way and confesses Jesus with his mouth is a permanent Child of God and if they backslide 10 years later or 10 minutes later, we can't give up on them, nor should we doubt the sincerity of their commitment at the time they committed.
If someone responds to a gospel call and expresses faith and trust in Jesus and believes in their heart and confesses with their lips then they shall be saved.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9 KJV)
The end product (salvation) is up to God. The expression of faith and belief is up to you. Say it. Mean it. You're saved. No man can pluck you from His hand. The Blessed Hope. Count on it. It's a promise. It's a fact. It is real.
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