Posted on 09/18/2005 5:53:45 AM PDT by GYPSY286
I am a Christian and was raised in the Methodist Church. As an adult, I have chosen not to belong to any demonination but have attended services at the local Methodist, Presbyterian, Assembly of God and Catholic churches.<> Last evening, a friend of mine and I got into a theological discussion after reading several passages in the Bible, and we both raised questions which neither of us could answer.<>(1)In beleiving that the Bible is the Word of God (which I do), we are all descendents of Adam and Eve and Abraham. Abraham was Jewish, as was Jesus, both who believed in the Old Testament and practiced God's laws accordingly. After Jesus's death and resurrection, he instructed his disciples to spread the Word. My question is why and when did Christians STOP the practices of the Old Testament(i.e. Yon Kippur, Passover, Saturday as the Sabbath, etc.) and REPLACE the celebration of Jesus' birth (Christmas)and His Death/Resurrection (Easter)while spreading his Word? Wouldn't true Christianity uphold the same beliefs and practices as Jesus did while spreading his Word?<>(2) If we are all descendents of Adam and Eve, one must logically believe that incest was involved - how could this be?<> If we are all descendents of Adam and Eve, wouldn't our DNA be the same? Any guidance of those more knowledgeable than I would be deeply appreciated. P.S. Can someone please instruct me on making paragraphs? I've obviously done something wrong!
As far as your second question, an older fellow I know told me "There's alot of stuff in the Bible I don't understand, but that doesn't worry me as much as the things that I do understand"
Where did the children of Adam and Eve find their spouses?
To make a paragraph... hit the enter key once in a while.
Don't miss Genesis 6. Remember, it was Noah that found grace. Is it your point that God disapproves of incest?
Mutations could account for part of the diversity in our DNA. Perhaps the apple was radioactive or laden with heavy metals.
Immediately. Those Jewish feasts were shadows of what was to come (cf. Col. 2:16-17). Read Saint Paul's Letter to the Hebrews.
17 For he testifieth: Thou art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech. 18 There is indeed a setting aside of the former commandment, because of the weakness and unprofitableness thereof: 19 For the law brought nothing to perfection: but a bringing in of a better hope, by which we draw nigh to God. 20 And inasmuch as it is not without an oath (for the others indeed were made priests without an oath: 21 But this with an oath, by him that said unto him: The Lord hath sworn and he will not repent: Thou art a priest for ever). 22 By so much is Jesus made a surety of a better testament. (Heb. 7:17-22)
1 Now of the things which we have spoken, this is the sum: We have such an high priest who is set on the right hand of the throne of majesty in the heavens, 2 A minister of the holies and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord hath pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is necessary that he also should have some thing to offer. 4 If then he were on earth, he would not be a priest: seeing that there would be others to offer gifts according to the law. 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things. As it was answered to Moses, when he was to finish the tabernacle: See (saith he) that thou make all things according to the pattern which was shewn thee on the mount. 6 But now he hath obtained a better ministry, by how much also he is a mediator of a better testament which is established on better promises. 7 For if that former had been faultless, there should not indeed a place have been sought for a second. 8 For, finding fault with them, he saith: Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord: and I will perfect, unto the house of Israel and unto the house of Juda, a new testament: 9 Not according to the testament which I made to their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt: because they continued not in my testament: and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the testament which I will make to the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my laws into their mind: and in their heart will I write them. And I will be their God: and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying: Know the Lord. For all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them. 12 Because I will be merciful to their iniquities: and their sins I will remember no more. 13 Now in saying a new, he hath made the former old. And that which decayeth and groweth old is near its end. (Heb. 8:1-13)
They choose their spouses from their own family. This was not against God's law, if you read the bible then you will find that later God will forbid the intermarriage of siblings.
Thank you - I'm not trying to make a point at all. However, if Adam and Eve gave birth to a son - in order to go forth and multiply, one would have to assume that the son would have had to had relations with Eve (his mother)or a sister in order to procreate.
Appreciate your reply - I believe I read somewhere that Constatine (early century) changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday when he broke away from the Roman Church. Although I have not read the entire Bible - I don't recall reading in the New Testament that the day had been changed.
To make a paragraph, put a P between the greater than and less than signs.
There are some Jewish Traditions that are upheld in the Catholic Church - the wiping of the Precious Blood (blood is always soaked with a towel from the ground), the Santuary separate from the nave, Sunday as a day of rest, etc. As Rosilyn Moss, a convert, put it about a Catholic church, "It's a synagogue with Christ."
Yom Kippur, the Jewish day of Atonement, has been replaced with Lent, 40 days of Atonement. Passover, the time when the old is replaced with the new, is the Triduum - the Sacred oils are discarded and new oil is blessed; fires are extinguished and a new fire is blessed; Holy Water is returned to the ground and fresh water is blessed. During the Exultet on Holy Saturday, there is even a line, "this is our Passover Feast, when Christ, the true lamb is slain..."
Really, Catholism sees Christianity as the fulfillment of the desert covenant. It is the fulfillment of the prophesy. Therefore, Judaism does not need to exist, with all due respect to my Jewish friends who are very diligent in their mainentance of tradition. Would that the people of my own faith be that observant.
(note-I did something different to make that visible. if you type that in your post as it appears above, you won't see it...it'll just create a paragraph break)
In response to your second question, the bible is a better spiritual, ethical amd moral guide than it is a biology text. Take from it what is has.
The sabbath was changed in honor of the day the Lord rose.
Constantine never broke away from the church - he was a very strong convert to it. He wasn't even baptized until an hour before his death. He did that in order to ensure his salvation. Would that we could all believe that strongly.
Ok - sounds like a reasonable explanation. But doesn't this "change" conflict with Revelations 22:18,19 about the Word of God? I'm sooooo confused.
18 I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,
19 and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
However, Matthew 5:18 makes a point that more clearly answers your question. Note that it refers to the "law" not to practice or tradition. And remember that Mosaic Law was replaced by Jesus (as the fulfilment of the Law).
Matthew 5:18
"18": For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
I find it helpful to know the context. The whole paragraph reads:
16 I Jesus have sent my angel, to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and stock of David, the bright and morning star. 17 And the spirit and the bride say: Come. And he that heareth, let him say: Come. And he that thirsteth, let him come: and he that will, let him take the water of life, freely. 18 For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book. 20 He that giveth testimony of these things, saith, Surely I come quickly: Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
This is from the Douay-Rheims. It would be helpful to know a little more of what you are asking.
There is a very simple way to erase that confusion.
After having completely turned your life over to Jesus, ask the Holy Spirit in prayer to reveal the Word to you. That is the only way to come to an understanding of Scripture. Anything less is just an academic review of a book.
But, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Bible is a living thing, a blessing and a miracle.
Constantine may have broken away from the Catholic Church by championing the cause of the Arians -- the very same people he opposed at Constantinople in 325. The bishop who baptized Constantine was apparently an Arian.
In your library you might have a copy of Elliot's The Christianity of Constantine the Great which shows that Constantine was a Christian long before the Battle of Milvian Bridge. His mother, after all, was a Christian. How his Christianity changed in regard to Arianism (his favorite son were openly Arian) is not always clear. I don't remember if Elliot discusses that or not.
Here's a good place to get a copy at a cheap price: http://www.ecampus.com/bk_detail.asp?isbn=0940866595&referrer=frgl
Also, Constantine's belief in Christianity was complex to say the least. He USED it for his own advantage. As the old Catholic Encyclopedia points out: "In the dedication of Constantinople in 330 a ceremonial half pagan, half Christian was used. The chariot of the sun-god was set in the market-place, and over its head was placed the Cross of Christ, while the Kyrie Eleison was sung. Shortly before his death Constantine confirmed the privileges of the priests of the ancient gods. Many other actions of his have also the appearance of half-measures, as if he himself had wavered and had always held in reality to some form of syncretistic religion. Thus he commanded the heathen troops to make use of a prayer in which any monotheist could join, and which ran thus: "We acknowledge thee alone as god and king, we call upon thee as our helper. From thee have we received the victory, by thee have we overcome the foe. To thee we owe that good which we have received up to now, from thee do we hope for it in the future. To thee we offer our entreaties and implore thee that thou wilt preserve to us our emperor Constantine and his god-fearing sons for many years uninjured and victorious." The emperor went at least one step further when he withdrew his statue from the pagan temples, forbade the repair of temples that had fallen into decay, and suppressed offensive forms of worship. But these measures did not go beyond the syncretistic tendency which Constantine had shown for a long time. Yet he must have perceived more and more clearly that syncretism was impossible." www.newadvent.org article on "Constantine"
Also: "Meanwhile, Constantia, the Emperor's sister, had recommended Arius, whom she thought an injured man, to Constantine's leniency. Her dying words affected him, and he recalled the Lybian, extracted from him a solemn adhesion to the Nicene faith, and ordered Alexander, Bishop of the Imperial City, to give him Communion in his own church (336). Arius openly triumphed; but as he went about in parade, the evening before this event was to take place, he expired from a sudden disorder, which Catholics could not help regarding as a judgment of heaven, due to the bishop's prayers. His death, however, did not stay the plague. Constantine now favoured none but Arians; he was baptized in his last moments by the shifty prelate of Nicomedia; and he bequeathed to his three sons (337) an empire torn by dissensions which his ignorance and weakness had aggravated." www.newadvent.org article on "Arianism."
Thus, Constantine may never have been a formal Catholic (i.e. baptized into the Church), although he may have had the faith of a Catholic at one time, he still apparently died as an Arian, after living a mercurial life of incredible generosity to the Church and murder of his own family members.
Yep, people can be complicated.
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