Posted on 10/05/2005 11:05:11 PM PDT by Salvation
The Catechism is a great tool to use while Studying the Bible.
I believe the Church uses the term "pre-history" when refering to the first 11 Chapters of Genesis. Probably based on much of what you said - although some of the writers didn't actually witness what they wrote about. (Like Luke or Moses) I have read a good case for Genesis being small sections of writings from the actual "Patriarchs" preceding Abram that were later compiled into one book, Genesis. Who can say. The point is that God desires a particular message to be brought out in the Scriptures, and it is up to the Church to teach it formally, as well as the individual to practice some sort of Scriptural spirituality to take meaning from these writings in his own walk with Christ. (which presumes one not take a meaning that is the opposite of the Church) I don't see the point of arguing about whether Jonah was a real historical account or not. Perhaps for Protestants who deny the existence of a teaching Church, it is a problem and they thus defend its literalness against all evidence. But for a Catholic, we can read Scripture spiritually as well as literally. We realize that God can speak through various literary genres, to include parables or legendary stories.
Regards
I just started a 24 week time line based Catholic Bible Study last night. Usually I would go to a Pentecostal Bible study but I have now found a new bible study home. It was great to be able to fellowship with other Catholics who believe in the Sacraments, and pray the Rosary. I enjoyed my old bible study but it would make me upset when people would tell me that I wasn't saved and my baptism was invalid.
The Tradition of the Church and the Scripture come from the same source, God. Thus, they CANNOT contradict. If they appear to in your eyes, it is because you are misinterpreting something. I don't know what you have in mind here, but I have argued every conceivable Protestant argument, and have not found any case with merit yet.
Do you know you can still buy indulgences? What part of scripture is that from?
Without detailing your misunderstanding of indulgences, the Church has the authority to bind and loosen in Matthew's Gospel, Chapter 16 and 18. The Church has ALWAYS understood those verses as the ability to make such decisions for the sake of the entire Church. The concept of indulgences are Scriptural, as Martin Luther himself wrote before he left the Church.
The tradition of man is warned against in scripture
You are confusing terms. "Tradition of men", as Christ puts it, means something that keeps men from God. It is NOT a Tradition that is made up by man! Christ specifically refers to Korban, the practice of avoiding one's duty to their parents - a practice that kept a person from God so that he could keep access to his money. A tradition like the rosary, for example, does NOT keep a person from God, but focuses one's attention on Christ - this can hardly be considered a "tradition of men" in the sense Christ meant. A good example of "tradition of men" is Sola Fide. It is an invention of men (and not found in Scripture) that tends to deny the utility of love. This keeps man from God, since God is love.
B16 cannot be referring to the third person of the God head, B16 out ranks Him.
Utterly ridiculous. Which Pope EVER said he outranked God? Or even insinuated it? Please, brother.
Regards
I was going to say that, but you beat me to it!
Don't tell the guy who posted the The Vanity of Their Minds: Sola Scriptura thread!
It needs to be emphasized. Thanks for posting.
I'm Catholic and part of a women's Bible Study.
I love it!
"Do you know if it is for information and knowledge, for spirituality primarily, or a combination of both? I have seen versions of all three. Do they focus on a book, or a theme?"
I think the focus always has to be on the advancement of spirituality but clearly gaining knowledge is an important component of any Bible Study. Usually, whether it is a period with a specific book or a specific theme, the writings and reflections of the Fathers or of a recognized, holy and perhaps modern spiritual father are read in conjunction with the Bible lest there be any question about whether or not what is being taught is based in the Holy Tradition of The Church or merely the speculations of the church of Fr. K, for example.
Hehehe
You beat me to it.....
I don't see this as an over-reaction by a newsman but as a simple positional statement from the Catholic Church. Your statement above is indicative of that position.
With all due respect I think this is where Catholics get themselves into trouble and it relegates the scriptures down to nothing more than stories. Consequently how do you know the virgin birth of Mary isn't a story? Or how about Abraham? Based upon traditions? Who's to choose what is a story and what isn't? The Church?
There are prophesies in scripture that are not clear. Certainly there have been various scriptural interpretations for what God is telling us for centuries. But I have to accept the Bible as God's word or reject it entirely. It doesn't contain stories or myths. It is the history of God's elect as put together by God-not a bunch of church fathers trying to pick and choose.
I mean this kindly. Catholics are quick to accept Mary appearing on a cheese sandwich, in a tunnel on a New Jersey expressway, or in a corn field in Spain but they cannot reconcile themselves to God's divine intervention of creating His written word. Our Lord Jesus referred to some of the more controversial events in scripture as fact; Noah, Daniel, and, (yes) Jonah. Yet we have people saying Jonah was "just a story" but believe Mary appeared on a cheese sandwich.
For some of the other criticism that has appeared the pot shots are unwarranted. If I was a Catholic I would be outraged that such a thing would come from the Vatican, not Harley. The early church fathers never felt these were "stories" but live events and believed in the inerrant of God's word. The took pains to separate the "inspired" word from the rest of the documents. I wonder what Augustine or Jerome would say to some of the "brilliant" people in the Vatican these days?
All their work is now being discarded and undermined not only by the Catholics but a great many churches. For what reason-because the "theory" of E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N isn't spelled out? It doesn't sound "scientifically" accurate. Rubbish!! What makes us so smart? But sometimes, sadly, it is much more important to just go along with the crowd than to be true to God. In one of our previous discussions I said there were lines in the sand for me. This is one of them.
God's word is holy, righteous and just. Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God. To minimize it important is to minimize His Son because Christ is "the Word". We just do not understand what we have.
No, Sola Scriptura is not what he is getting at, nor is Sola Scriptura to be found in the Bible. ;)
Very well said.
I agree. You don't find too many Bible studies that include the interpretations of the Fathers. That is why I enjoy the Navarre Bible series. Are you aware of any other Bible study books or notes that detail the Father's interpretations of Scriptures? I know Aquinas wrote one for the Gospels (some day, I'll buy it! It is about $100), but I am not familiar with any that cover particular books of the Scripture, like Romans. The other option is much more difficult, to sort through all of the Fathers who happen to write something about a book. Anyway, the Fathers are an excellent place to go for Bible studies - and I enjoy using their quotes when I am teaching - this gives the people a sense of history and unity with those people from long time ago (plus, they know it is not my theology, but the Church's theology).
Brother in Christ
Like hell.
God willing, I will lead a unique Bible Study group soon - a Gregorian chant schola.
Practically all of the texts of the Gregorian chants (Introit, Gradual, Alleluia/Tract, Offertory, Communion) are taken directly from Scripture.
Granted, we will not study very much of the Bible during our study sessions (a.k.a. rehearsals), but those texts will be ingrained deeply into the consciousness of the singers.
Please pray for the success of this effort.
"Are you aware of any other Bible study books or notes that detail the Father's interpretations of Scriptures? "
Off hand, no. Much is available on line, however and the Fathers often wrote sermons about specific passages or books of the Bible. The source we use is a complete set of the writings of the Fathers we have in the Church library. It takes up 2-3 large shelves and is quite expensive, but very well indexed and cross referenced.
Nobody expects or wants that.
A call for more biblical literacy is not equal to the Pope validating Protestantism's sola scriptura error.
Sola Scriptura was intended as a corrective measure against medieval Catholic abuses. As I noted above, it wasn't intended to eliminated all non-scriptural practices and traditions, only those that CONTRADICT scripture.
The argument that's beginning in the Protestant world right now, is -- since the medieval abuses are long in the past, maybe it's time to stop protesting? There are, of course, 2 sides to the argument and I see merit on both. But 5 years ago, I would never have even DREAMED about going back to Rome; now, the idea is at least discussable.
The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are
It's nice of them to identify "the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church" with "the Catholic bishops of England, Wales, and Scotland", isn't it? I guess the rest of the world just doesn't count.
Is it okay with the UK Times if I identify "the hierarchy of the worldwide Anglican Communion" with "Vicky Gene Robinson, the openly homosexual Episcopalian bishop of New Hampshire"?
By the way, I might point out that not only are "the Catholic bishops of England, Wales, and Scotland" not identical to "the Roman Catholic hierarchy", but the Pope pulls rank over both groups.
Flatly banned by the Council of Trent over 500 years ago. Get with the times.
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