Christ Died for the Sins of Christians, Too

Assembly Reflections ^ | Dr. Rod Rosenbladt

[B Knotts]

Isn't that the Bible Clinton used to carry to church?

[P-Marlowe]

Isn't that the Bible Clinton used to carry to church?

And I bet not a single street preacher ever came within 100 yards of him when he was carrying it.

[P-Marlowe]

BTW if you really want a laugh, follow the link on the picture.

[Charles Henrickson]

Rosenbladt for SP?

Someone who can think theologically . . . for Synod President? Unfortunately, that's not about to happen. This is not your grandfather's church.

[B Knotts]

LOL

[old-ager]

> saaaaves

saaayyyyvvz-ah

[ScubieNuc]

"Great line but I believe it was from before the foundation of the universe.."

You believe that people were saved before the foundation of the universe? Where do you get that idea, if you don't mind me asking?

Sincerely

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

Hah! Never has been. My grandfathers were MethoPresbyterians. I left that heterodoxy in my late teens.

[Uri’el-2012]

You believe that people were saved before the foundation of the universe?
Where do you get that idea, if you don't mind me asking?

Sincerely

When do you believe that The creator of the universe decided to call you to Him?

b'shem Y'shua

[ScubieNuc]

I'd heard it was Jewish to answer a question with a question, but I asked first. 8^)

Where does the Bible say or imply that people are saved before the world was formed?

Sincerely

[Gamecock]

That wouldn't happen if you were carrying a Big Bible.

[P-Marlowe]

I don't think that guitar is an orthodox model. Real Christians play Les Pauls.

[P-Marlowe]

Where does the Bible say or imply that people are saved before the world was formed?

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

[ScubieNuc]

I asked..."Where does the Bible say or imply that people are saved before the world was formed? "

You posted..."Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:"

The Bible talks about saved this way...

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

As you can see, salvation requires the individual to do something (believe, confess, call, etc.). Your verse states that God chose us before the foundation of the world. God wants all humans to be with him, but unfortunately some will refuse Him. See the following verses...

1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The idea that God only chooses some people to be saved and others to be condemned is false. What kind of Final Judgement is there, if God prevents people from being saved by not choosing them? The Final Judgement will be God showing EVERYONE that He wanted to be with them, and He provided a way, but some failed to believe.

Sincerely

[P-Marlowe]

The idea that God only chooses some people to be saved and others to be condemned is false.

I don't think you can scripturally deny that God does, in fact, choose whom he is going to save. The soteriological question is not whether in fact God chooses some for salvation, but why does God choose one for salvation and another for damnation?

Clearly God is not required to save any of us. It is His sovereign decision to save those whom he does save.

That is where the debate begins.

P.S. I am not a Calvinist.

[ScubieNuc]

"I don't think you can scripturally deny that God does, in fact, choose whom he is going to save."

I just did in the previous post. I believe some of this is semantics. Your phrasing is "choose whom he is going to save." What is the Scriptural support for this?

Predistination and election are Biblical ideas. What they clearly mean for individuals and groups is a point of debate amoung Christians. When you weigh the context of all Scripture, I believe you have much more support for God choosing us all, but all of us not choosing him, and because He is God and knows all, He pre-knows who will reject Him. However, at the Final Judgement NO one will have an excuse for not choosing Him, because he provided a way for all.

That is different from selecting some to be saved and others not to be. Why then tell people to believe and call on the Lord to be saved, if that was already decided before they were born? Why tell people to go into all the world and spread the Gospel, if it's out of their hands anyway? At the Final Judgement, people could say, "I didn't do your work, because you didn't let (choose)me."

"I am not a Calvinist."

Honestly, that term doesn't really mean much to me. It is probably useful to people with Theology Degrees, but to me, it's some kind of name plate people like to hang on themselves or others. Whether or not I am one or not, I do not know or care. My concern is studing the Word of God, Spreading the Gospel, and applying God's Word to my life.

Sincerely

[ScubieNuc]

Personally, I love the way these verses read...

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The Greek word that KJV translates to "will have" is thelo. Thelo is defined-to will, have in mind, intend, to desire, to wish, to take delight in. It's pretty clear that God desires for ALL to be saved.

Sincerely

[jude24]

It's pretty clear that God desires for ALL to be saved.

It's not clear what that means, however. Scripture equally clearly says that God has mercy upon whom He wills, and whom He wills, he hardens.

[P-Marlowe]

It's not clear what that means, however. Scripture equally clearly says that God has mercy upon whom He wills, and whom He wills, he hardens.

And FWIW it's not really clear what that means either.

I will agree that the ultimate determiner of our salvation is God. He is not obligated to save anyone. Those he saves, he saves because he is merciful, those he condemns, he condemns because he is just.

[Uri’el-2012]

I will agree that the ultimate determiner of our salvation is God. He is not
obligated to save anyone. Those he saves, he saves because he is merciful,
those he condemns, he condemns because he is just.

Bump that!

b'shem Y'shua