Posted on 01/10/2006 10:06:56 AM PST by Terriergal
LAKE FOREST, Calif. - This week, it was the Rose Bowl players' breakfast. This month, it will be the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. Then the President's prayer breakfast in Washington, followed by an entertainment industry conference in Los Angeles.
Rick Warren, the Southern Baptist preacher's son from tiny Redwood Valley, Calif., is much in demand these days.
The founding pastor of the Saddleback mega-church south of Los Angeles and the author of the best-selling The Purpose Driven Life, Warren is perhaps the most influential evangelical Christian in America.
With his book - the best-selling hardback nonfiction book in the nation - and Purpose-Driven Life videos and 40-day Bible study plans, Warren has created an unparalleled international network of millions of individuals and 400,000 churches, spanning faiths and denominations.
Now he wants to use his growing influence - and wealth - for an ambitious global attack on poverty, AIDS, illiteracy and disease.
"The New Testament says the church is the body of Christ, but for the last 100 years, the hands and feet have been amputated, and the church has just been a mouth. And mostly, it's been known for what it's against," Warren said during a break between services at his sprawling Orange County church campus.
"I'm so tired of Christians being known for what they're against."
Fresh from preaching to 38,000 congregants during Christmas week services, Warren was looking to the future by invoking the past.
"One of my goals is to take evangelicals back a century, to the 19th century," said Warren, 51, shifting painfully in his chair because of a back sprain suffered during an all-terrain-vehicle romp with his 20-year-old son, Matthew. "That was a time of muscular Christianity that cared about every aspect of life."
Not just personal salvation, but social action. Abolishing slavery. Ending child labor. Winning the right for women to vote.
It's time for modern evangelicals to trade words for deeds and get similarly involved, Warren contends.
At the end of his second sermon last Sunday, he reminded his largely affluent Orange County audience: "Life is not about having more and getting more. It's about serving God and serving others."
That, simply put, is his message. Give your life to God, help others, spread the word. It is the same message that Christians have been preaching for 2,000 years. Warren has updated the language, added catchphrases and five-step guides, but he readily admits "there is not a new idea in that book."
The Purpose Driven Life has sold more than 24 million English-language copies since 2002, with millions more in other languages. It has been popular with Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, with pastors and priests using it as a Bible-study handbook.
The book figured prominently in a hostage drama in Georgia last March. Ashley Smith, held by alleged Atlanta courthouse killer Brian Nichols, said he released her after she gave him methamphetamine and read to him from the book.
Warren "is able to cast the Christian story so people can hear it in fresh ways," said Donald E. Miller, director of the Center for Religion and Civic Culture at the University of Southern California. He is "a very important figure in evangelical Christianity," part of a "trend we'll see more of," Miller said, citing Warren's independence, social activism, informality and ability to reach across racial and national lines.
"The Gen X-ers are sick and tired of flash and hype and marketing," Miller said. "The soft sell of a Rick Warren is far more attractive to them than a highly stylized TV presentation of the Christian message."
Among evangelicals, Warren is more influential than better-known and more-divisive figures such as religious broadcasters Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell or radio psychologist James Dobson, and is often seen as the heir to the Rev. Billy Graham as "America's pastor."
Scott L. Thumma, a professor of the sociology of religion at Hartford Seminary and the author of a forthcoming book on mega-churches, said polls of church leaders often put Warren in first or second place among most-influential evangelical leaders.
"And one of the interesting things is that he crosses boundaries... . He's not just respected by the evangelical world but by many outside that world," Thumma said.
In North Philadelphia, the Rev. Herbert Lusk, the former Philadelphia Eagles running back who is pastor of the Greater Exodus Baptist Church and a prominent supporter of President Bush, brought Warren to town in November to raise money for aid to Africa. Lusk also tutored many of the Eagles' players and coaches in the Purpose-Driven Life program last year.
Lusk said Warren "took the principles that we preach about every Sunday and packaged them in a way that are palatable for Christians and non-Christians."
"The guy is a preacher's preacher... . He's the leading evangelical in the world, unquestionably," Lusk said.
Broadly defined, evangelicals are Christians who have had a personal or "born-again" religious conversion, believe the Bible is the word of God, and believe in spreading their faith. (The term comes from Greek; to "evangelize" means to preach the gospel.) The term is typically applied to Protestants.
Millions of Americans fit the definition, although estimates vary on exactly how many. Forty-two percent of Americans described themselves as evangelical Christians in a Gallup poll in April, while 22 percent said they met all three measures in a Gallup survey in May. The National Association of Evangelicals says about 25 percent of adult Americans are evangelicals.
Evangelicals are often equated with fundamentalists or the religious right, which annoys Warren. Although he's politically conservative - opposing abortion and gay marriage and supporting the death penalty - he pushes a much broader agenda and disdains both politics and fundamentalism.
Warren is a friend of President Bush and a repeat visitor to the White House. But he also met for several hours at Saddleback last month with Sen. John Kerry, the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee, to discuss issues such as poverty and the environment.
"I'm worried that evangelicals be identified too much with one party or the other. When that happens, you lose your prophetic role of speaking truth to power," Warren said. "And you have to defend stupid things that leaders do."
"Politics is always downstream from culture. I place less confidence in it than a lot of folks. I don't think that's the answer... . Politics is not the right tool to change the culture."
With his goatee and penchant for Hawaiian shirts and colloquial language, Warren embodies a laid-back approach to worship that resonates with Americans who have little allegiance to formal denominations or rituals.
His 120-acre hilltop campus, with palm trees, waterfall and meandering brook, is a kind of religious theme park, where worshipers meet in different buildings to suit their musical preferences, while watching simultaneous video feeds of Warren preaching at the main worship center.
Warren's father and grandfather and great-grandfather were all preachers. He followed their path by starting Saddleback in 1980 with his wife, Kay, and a congregation of seven. His ministry prospered in booming Orange County, as Warren went door-to-door, asking residents what they'd like in a church. For 15 years, he and his growing flock were nomads, meeting in schools, homes and other buildings. Construction started on the current campus in 1995, and Warren now has 80,000 names on Saddleback's rolls. Saddleback is a a Southern Baptist church, but it doesn't advertise the fact.
As the money has rolled in from his book, Warren said he has given most of the millions to the church and the three social-service foundations he has established. He stopped taking his $110,000 annual salary and repaid the church for his 25 years of salary since its founding. He and his wife became "reverse tithers," he said, keeping 10 percent of their income and giving away the rest, including $13 million in 2004.
This month, he is leading a trip to Rwanda, to train pastors and distribute medicine and money to battle AIDS and other diseases. It's part of what he calls his global PEACE plan (Plant a church, Equip leaders, Assist the poor, Care for the sick, Educate the next generation).
Last month, he launched the first major evangelical effort to battle AIDS, convening a three-day conference at Saddleback to mobilize American Christians to help AIDS victims and raise money to fight the disease. Part of the battle for Warren is overcoming resistance from evangelicals who view AIDS as strictly a gay disease or even as divine retribution for immoral behavior.
Warren said he sees religious institutions as more powerful forces than governments for solving the world's problems.
"I would trust any imam or priest or rabbi to know what is going on in a community before I would any government agency."
But, powerful as churches can be in working for the powerless, they can't succeed without governments and nongovernmental organizations, Warren said.
Warren predicts that fundamentalism, of all varieties, will be "one of the big enemies of the 21st century."
"Muslim fundamentalism, Christian fundamentalism, Jewish fundamentalism, secular fundamentalism - they're all motivated by fear. Fear of each other."
ONLINE EXTRA
To read the rest of the series on the evangelical movement by Paul Nussbaum, visit http://go.philly.com/religion
Our job is to compel them to come in the door. It is Christ's job to compel them to come into the FOLD. Or don't you believe that?
Our job is to get them to the place where they are confronted by Christ and his word. Christ's job is to convict them of their sins and draw them unto repentance. Or don't you believe that?
Obviously you disagree with Gill who insisted that we need to compel them to come into the place where they are then confronted by the word of God, i.e., the house of worship.
In the reformation period they didn't have to entice people with smiles and coffee and a relaxed atmosphere to get the unchurched in the door, they could simply threaten them with bodily harm. We don't have that luxury anymore. Now all we can legally do is to entice them with our love and hit them over the head with the Gospel when they show up. Cast your line and reel it in. Tough love.
Once again, you should probably do some research:
I am sure Warren was not referring to the fundamentals of the faith when he made reference to fundamentalists.
From his interview at pewforum.org
What does Rick Warren define Christian Fundamentalism to be?
In a May 2005 interview between Rick Warren and the Pew Forum on Religion, Warren stated:
"Today there really aren't that many Fundamentalists left; I don't know if you know that or not, but they are such a minority; there aren't that many Fundamentalists left in America ... Now the word 'fundamentalist' actually comes from a document in the 1920s called the Five Fundamentals of the Faith. And it is a very legalistic, narrow view of Christianity." Quote by Rick Warren, May 2005
What I am trying to say is that I question if the methods are "unbiblical" or just non-traditional.
Jesus was/is quite non-traditional. Change is a good thing sometimes. Judging a tree by it's fruit (and I don't mean monetary) is also a good way to look at this.
Regarding the fluff thing. What I've seen of Warrens work (I looked up some of it) DOES include meat. Like the apostles, some was "spiritual milk" and some was meat. I guess any judgment of Warrens words would have to consider the audience at the time they were being said
How do you judge its effectiveness? By how many people attend? By whether they sign a dotted line? Is that how we discern a person's spiritual condition? Rick Warren has grossly oversimplified what it means to be a Christian, and completely left out the Lordship of Christ and the complete Sovereignty of our triune God. Never does he think to warn 'be sure what you think you should do is ACTUALLY right. And this is how you learn to discern.'
No, even in PDL he poo poo's bible study, and recommends all kinds of corruptions if you MUSt study it, the Message being foremost.
Terrergal, how do you evangelize?
He implies that how traditional something is can give it substance and validity.
I hate the concept of tradition, as it validates precepts of my tradition. Jesus sure changed tradition. Left long enough, man can add quite a few "traditions of man" to his
"religion". The church I was going to tried to start using that ridiculous "Christian flag" complete with a pledge. It has been removed.
You are absolutely right on this one. I know we disagree on some things, but I am glad for your input. You do really think about things and wrestle with them. Sorry if I'm coming off as badgering. Having gone through what I went through at the hands of a just mildly purpose driven pastor, I have to say I'm a little passionate about the issue. But it's not the only issue attacking the church (as I see it). Just the most popular, right now.
"Christ performed miracles to fulfill prophecy and prove that He was Deity...not to meet felt needs."
Then why did He ask the blind man "What can I do for you?"
Can you provide a link directly to the page? The links are self referential so they try to go back to FR's server, and of course, are not to be found.
I agree, the article is not clear enough to respond accurately to it.
I agree, the article is not clear enough to respond accurately to it.
You mean like Marilyn Hickey's "Happy Church"?
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fridaynews/fridaynews030829.html
BEWARE OF MARILYN HICKEY. Friday Church News Notes, August 29, 2003 (David W. Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, fbns@wayoflife.org, http://www.wayoflife.org, 866-295-4143) - Marilyn Hickey, the co-pastor of Happy Church in Denver, Colorado, is one of the most influential women charismatic leaders. She teaches the unscriptural and dangerous Word-Faith message. She claims that it is “always God’s will to heal” (Hickey’s ministry paper, Dec. 1988). She claims that sicknesses are “demon spirits” and that God never uses sickness or poverty to chasten believers (Marilyn Hickey Show, Oct. 1, 1998; Charisma, May 1991). She says: “What do you need? Start creating it. Start speaking about it. Start speaking it into being. Speak to your billfold. Say, ‘You big, thick billfold full of money.’ Speak to your checkbook. Say, ‘You, checkbook, you. You’ve never been so prosperous since I owned you. You’re just jammed full of money’ ... Say to your body, ‘You’re whole, body! Why, you just function so beautifully and so well. Why, body, you never have any problems. You’re a strong, healthy body.’ Or speak to your leg, or speak to your foot, or speak to your neck, or speak to your back; and once you have spoken and believe that you have received, and don’t go back on it. Speak to your wife, speak to your husband, speak to your circumstances; and speak faith to them to create in them and God will create what you are speaking” (Hickey, Claim Your Miracles, audiotape #186).
My lukewarm purpose-driveling ex church is. Why?
Boy, where did that come from? He didn't insult you.
>>They are not being brought in under false pretenses.<<
I say they are. They're being "sold" a product using creature comforts rather than the mighty sword of God.
>>Pharisicalism. (is that a word?)<<
I'm not sure, but I think a Pharisicle is a frozen treat for the non-believer. :-P
>>)... The fact that they have arrived is what is important and in that sense they are there by divine appointment. Correct?<<
Inasmuch as God is entirely sovereign and that nothing happens outside of His will, yes. But only He knows if said person is going to grow from teh visit, or become disillusioned and jaded by the subsequent "whip-up and let-down".
But one could also make that argument for going to a club, strip joint, or bar. "Hey, I'm here by divine appointment, right?!"
So it's kinda personal with you, huh?
Did you submit to the authority of your pastor? When you found out that you could not submit to the authority of your pastor, did you sew dissention or did you leave?
My pastor has chosen some paths that I have thought were wrong headed and questionable. Yet it is not my place to sew dissention. It turns out that most of the stupid things he has done have been pretty smart after all.
Your pastor chose to lead you down a different path than you wished to go. But he was the pastor. Your choice was to leave the flock or follow the shepherd. I suspect you chose to leave. Well, I suspect that you have a new pastor now and that you are happy with him and that you are following him. So why do you continue to sew dissention in the flock you left?
Oh boy, I don't know whether to laugh or cry over the "Happy church". Just...wow.
I'm reminded of a friend of mine in Tuscon who attends a church that idolizes Joel Osteen. The pastor of the church demands that he be called "Pastor Friend", and not his given name.
Our pastor just finished a sermon series on the fact that he's NOT our friend, and is not ever meant to be. He's been called to be a shepherd of the flock and a preacher of the Word, not our bestest buddy.
>>Change is a good thing sometimes.<<
The cannon of scripture is finished. God's revelation to us is complete. Why is there a need for something "new"? Did God not foresee evanelism in the 21st century?
The same model for preaching and reaching the lost as shown in Acts still applies today. There's nothing new under the sun.
What do you make of Paul saying 1 Cor 14 "if an unbeliever comes in to your assembly" -- apparently it was a rarity.
Come in the door of what? the church building. Is that where they get saved, or do they get saved because of what you witness to them in everyday life? If you are leaving it up to the crowd to do your evangelizing for you, that explains why you would take this stance. But that is not what we are called to do. The church is for the building up and equipping OF THE SAINTS to go out and evangelize IN THE WORLD where they are. I'm not saying you should never invite anyone to church who isn't a believer, but that is not how we are called to evangelize. That is a copout for believers too scared to stand alone in the world for Christ.
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