Posted on 01/16/2006 6:00:21 AM PST by NYer
We do good works in faith, not to buy our way into heaven. Faith without works is a dead faith.
"faith without deeds is dead" (James 2:26)
It's a nice reminder whenever some get too enthralled by worldly or carnal luxuries without faith in God (not appealing to either asceticism or a frantic search for counterfeit happiness, but simply occupied with how how Lord Christ Jesus gave us the perfect example of how we all shoulf solve problems in all our thinking and approaches to all situations.
Again, yes. There was never an instance when I sincerely asked Our Lord how I should handle something and was not given an unequivocal reply.
Thanks for the response, by the way, and I have a question. As the Gospel of John notes:
In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
Did Satan know Christ, when he rebelled? I realize this is not really an answerable question, I guess what I'm really asking is has it been speculated upon as to whether Lucifer's knowledge of Christ was part of the reason he rebelled?
Our abilities differ, but anyone who takes the time to read Roman Catholic teaching on works will understand that, theologically, the Latin Church and the Orthodox Church teach one and the same thing: good works are works of faith; faith without works is a dead faith.
This is not to say that, at one time, or even today, some Roman Catholics or Orthodox Christians do not, in pure ignorance or self-belief, contrary to the Church doctrines, believe that we can do good works outside of faith or that, worse, these works are "indulgences" with which we "pay off" our debt to God.
That being said, this is where we differ with Latins when it comes to after-life. The Latin teaching of Purgatory as a state where punishment leads to spiritual indulgences is foreign to Orthodoxy, but we do believe that our prayers and intercessions of the saints ease the discomfort of the souls of the departed. There is a huge difference, as you say, PM, in the two concepts. One suggests that our "indulgences" somehow pay off the debts of minor sins which cause discomfort or even pain to the souls of the departed, and (Orthodox teaching that prayers and fasts are) the easing of the discomfort of the souls who are in an unnatural state (separated from the body), with their unrepented sins exposed (shame comes to mind).
Ours are more like gentle patting on the backs and hugs; Catholic dogma is more an out-of-jail bond payment.
Thanks for your reply...Interesting perspectives.
I have to admit this statement "Our abilities differ, but anyone who takes the time to read Roman Catholic teaching on works will understand that, theologically, the Latin Church and the Orthodox Church teach one and the same thing: good works are works of faith; faith without works is a dead faith" has not always been stated this way to me on here...I've have more than my share of RCC'r's not state it this way...
Blessings in Christ.
It is obvious, however, that the nature of angelic sin is different because of the lack of flesh nature and associated passions that we are subject to. It is also to be noted that that the nature of angelic punishment for their fall is wihtout redemption, unforgivable.
One can only speculate as to why this is, but obviously the angls are held to a higher standard than men.
That's why I pinged annalex as my Catholic "censor maximus." :-)
I am no expert on this, but in exhanges between the Orthodox and the Catholics, the Latins assure us that their concepts of good works (through faith) and similar issues are identical.
The Purgatory is a different issue. But even there they assure us that our understanding of their concepts is a matter of differences in languge and concepts and not of faith. That I am not sure of.
No such thing as you being uninvited; I value your knowledge. You touched on all the things I was thinking about, so it was very good that you 'jumped in.'
Lucifer's rebellion occurred before the Garden of Eden or the creation of man. Angels might speculate but also do not know the future other than what has been revealed by the Father, as I understand it.
I've considered James, but I've also found the 'dead'ness is a state of existence involving separation. The dead faith might be a separation between body and soul or spirit and body. Not necessarily a state of loss or without salvation from condemnation.
There is a subtle difference on substance, I think, regarding the Purgatory, but I cannot quite put my finger on it. I promised Kolokotronis a good discussion on the Catholic theology of merit to see what exactly this thing is. But I also promised him a review of the excellent Cavarnos's book on iconography. One day, we'll get there.
I don't see what all the confusion and controversy is about. Sounds to me like the Holy Father is talking about simply what we used to call "Baptism of Desire."
Does the Jew in your example chose to be excluded from heaven?
Are you trying to insinuate the Jew wouldn't know about the NT if it wasn't for the Pope interpreting it for him?
What??? Good will equals good works which have NOTHING to do with receiving salvation. This is where the lie permeates Catholism I have found...Tell me, how many "Good" works must I do to receive salvation?
You quote John 17:3 after this and still are ignorant about God's plan of salvation?
"Unless a man is born again...." Good works are not a requirement of being BA.
...Every Christian must make the effort to merit this salvation with a life of fidelity to God, of charity towards his brothers, of good works.
I was actually just asking the question. It's fine to do good works and have good will, I thank the Catholic church for many fine ones, however to lead people to believe that good works lead to salvation is wrong.
There is no requirement to "understand" what God says, the requirement is to make "Jesus" Lord of your life when speaking of salvation.
Even when they parade as virtues of light, but go against the precepts of scripture?
Yeshua. Jehova. God.
Why?
Alright, but this still doesn't negate the fact the Catholic church has been over run by so many side issues that do not lead people to Christ, but to doing good works as the main focus to gain salvation.
If you take it in context with the other scripture, it's easily understandable.
Alright, but this still doesn't negate the fact the Catholic church has been over run by so many side issues that do not lead people to Christ, but to doing good works as the main focus to gain salvation.>>
So what? And Protestant churches don't?
We have one advantage only: like it or not, among churches, we're the One True. Though it's admittedly hard to tell sometimes.
Honestly, my intent is not to bash Catholism. My intent is to try to understand why it is that Catholics find it neccessary to include all this extraneous stuff that has nothing to do with focusing on what the BIBLE says CHRIST is about.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.