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(Protestant) Minister Who Had Near-Death Episode Believes In Purgatory
Spirit Daily ^ | 2005 | Michael Brown

Posted on 03/08/2006 7:22:57 PM PST by churchillbuff

Howard Storm, a former atheist whose brush with death turned him into a Protestant minister, says that he now believes in purgatory.

"It only makes sense," he says, "but I have trouble discussing this with my fellow ministers."

Featured here a couple months ago and also on MSNBC during Easter Week -- where he told his incredible story to a national audience -- Reverend Storm, considered by experts as one of the most convincing near-death cases, recounted his "dying" in Paris in 1985 from a perforated duodenum and after leaving his body finding himself with a group of hideous beings who attacked him as they led him to a foggy zone that descended toward "hell."

Storm says he was saved by Jesus after desperately pleading to God. After an extensive hospitalization he recovered -- and learned that a nun who had once been a student of his had been praying for him for years.

Storm credits that with saving him; after the episode he left his job as an professor at Northern Kentucky University and entered a seminary, becoming a minister.

He is now with the Zion United Church of Christ in Norwood, Ohio (near Cincinnati), and while some churches in that denomination can be ultra-liberal, he openly preaches against abortion and the New Age.

Still, we try to be careful with these cases, and we always issue the disclaimer that we can't endorse every view of such experiencers -- some of whom tend at times to put their own (and sometimes a nearly New Age) spin on what occurred. Like any form of mysticism, it is to be carefully discerned.

This is true in the case of Reverend Storm -- who himself acknowledges that some of his views have shifted since he became an active Christian ( including a few expressed in a book which was written before his faith was fully formed). These episodes are told through the filter of a person's framework.

But he is a man who exudes love (the single most important element of Christianity); many believe his experience was real; and he says he now believes not only in heaven and hell but also a state in-between where souls are "purged."

After his horrifying brush with death the concept of purgation was explained to him by a priest, says Reverend Storm, and "just rang so clear to me in my experience."

He says that when he "died" he was taken through a "foggy" region strikingly similar to what has been described in mystical literature [see An Unpublished Manuscript on Purgatory] -- and also similar to descriptions by modern visionaries who have told of a great "gray" area between hell and heaven.

Although a devout Protestant, Storm says that he considers Catholicism "the Mother Church" and is even interested in the Catholic apparition site of Medjugorje. He says God doesn't want division and that the main reason why he was on the road to hell was lack of love, pride, and disbelief.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; heaintnoprotestant; howardstorm; nde; ndes; neardeathexperience; nutjob; pastor; purgatory; theybashcatholics
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To: Romish_Papist

"It's why Jesus entrusted the Word to Peter and his successors."

There is no such thing as Apostolic succession. If there were, a Pope about to die would annoint a successor. Instead of that they've been assassinating eachother. At one time there were two Popes.

Jesus entrusted his word to all believers. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Notice the order of "believe" and "baptize". You have to be older than a newborn baby to do that. Also, this doesn't leave any room for Peter, Popes or Purgatory, which are all late human inventions.


161 posted on 03/09/2006 1:29:09 PM PST by RoadTest ("- - a popular government cannot flourish without virtue in the people." - Richard Henry Lee, 1786)
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To: Search4Truth
I am not interested in games. I'm here to learn and share what I know as a KJV Bible believing Born Again Christian. But I'm sure there are some here who will endulge you in whatever you feel you need to prove.

My question was no more of a game than yours.
162 posted on 03/09/2006 1:29:14 PM PST by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: RoadTest
There is no such thing as Apostolic succession. If there were, a Pope about to die would annoint a successor. Instead of that they've been assassinating eachother. At one time there were two Popes.

Wow. Not sure where to begin with this one, but here goes:

First, Apostolic Succession is right in the book of Acts. After Judas commits suicide, do they decide to stay with 11 Apostles? No. They appoint a successor. So, we know of at least one definitive case of Apostolic Succession being passed down in the Bible and if the Apostles have the authority to appoint a successor to another Apostle, why would they not have the authority to appoint a successor to themselves?

Also, you contradict Christian history, once again. Could you provide documented evidence of the first ten Popes killing each other? My memory escapes me, but there is no documented evidence that Pope Linus killed St. Peter.

Notice the order of "believe" and "baptize". You have to be older than a newborn baby to do that. Also, this doesn't leave any room for Peter, Popes or Purgatory, which are all late human inventions.

Look, you're doing the typical Protestant argument and refusing to finish an argument on one topic and instead move from doctrine to doctrine attacking whatever you can until something sticks.

I would be more than happy to discuss any doctrine of the Church and its Biblical foundation, but it would be more productive if you responded to the rebuttals already made against your arguments instead of "carpet bombing" the thread, trying to hit whatever you can.
163 posted on 03/09/2006 1:35:56 PM PST by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: magisterium
If the early Church got this and so much else wrong, then Jesus was a liar and we are all wasting our time in any flavor of Christianity

Why I became a Catholic, in fewer words than I've ever been able to use myself. Thank you.

164 posted on 03/09/2006 1:38:22 PM PST by nina0113
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To: mike182d

Your deceit is obvious to probably everyone but you.

Salvation made a statement about Purgatory. I simply asked for the reference so that I could read it and understand more about his claim, as is typical in Bible discussions. I even said please.

You sought to simply antagonize and start an argument, which is what you are obviously used to doing, rather than exploring a better understanding of Word of God.

Who do you think you are fooling?

I have nothing more to say to you. As you are obviously antagonistic to Biblical discussions.


165 posted on 03/09/2006 1:39:40 PM PST by Search4Truth (Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson.)
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To: Search4Truth
Salvation made a statement about Purgatory. I simply asked for the reference so that I could read it and understand more about his claim, as is typical in Bible discussions. I even said please.

Here's what Scripture says:

1) All men are unclean
2) Nothing unclean can enter into heaven
3) Me can enter into heaven

Use the same deductive reasoning used to get the Trinity out of Scripture and Purgatory becomes quite obvious - it is the cleansing of a soul, by the grace of God, as they enter into union with God the Father in heaven.

I could point out Scripture from 2 Maccabees but Martin Luther, in his infinite wisdom and divine authority, thought it would be best to take that out of the Bible, so you are unlikely to find it in your KJV.

I have nothing more to say to you. As you are obviously antagonistic to Biblical discussions.

I was trying to argue by means of an analogy. Since the concept escapes you, I'm not sure how productive any discussion will be.
166 posted on 03/09/2006 1:43:07 PM PST by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: RoadTest

Peter is a late human invention? Wow, Christ would be surprised to hear that I imagine. I didn't know the Son of God needed imaginary friends. Don't try arguing semantics either, you know what "pope" means. Peter was given charge as the head of Christ's Church, thereby making him "pope." Were only the original Christians to be entitled to guidance on the teachings of Christ or is His Word eternal and for all time as He said? You can't have it both ways. Why would He entrust Peter with the Keys and tell him to feed His sheep for just one generation? Why would He place Peter in charge at all if there was to be no one after him? Were the following generations just somehow smarter or more open to the Truth that they did not need the guidance Christ instilled in Peter? Or are the following generations less worthy of the guidance Christ established through Peter? And why oh why would the very Apostles who walked with Christ elect another to take Stephen's place after his martyrdom if there is no succession? Could the very men who walked with God made flesh make such a mistake?

Purgatory, as has been explained many, many, many times on this thread is supported by Scripture (which was codified by the CATHOLIC Church even though Christ told no one to write anything down) but if you choose to ignore the evidence, that is up to you. I will pray for you regardless.

And if Jesus entrusted His word to all believers to be interpreted as it should, please tell me why over 31,000 Protestant denominations exist. After that, explain to me how you know YOUR interpretation is the correct one out of the other 30,999 versions.

My answer is simple, I follow the Church Christ instituted in 33 A.D. If one wanted to follow Christ, why would anyone choose differently?


167 posted on 03/09/2006 1:43:32 PM PST by Romish_Papist (St. Jude, pray for my lost cause. St. Rita, pray for my impossible situation.)
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To: mike182d

Sorry, that "me" in point (3) ought to read "men." My apologies.


168 posted on 03/09/2006 1:43:42 PM PST by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: RoadTest
"It's in the Catholic Encyclopedia. All you Catholics would do well to look into that book.

The quote of yours above is in response to someone denying your contention that Jesus, at Mass, "is slaughtered, according to Catholic doctrine." Okay, I'll bite. Show me the quote from the passage you claim to have read in the Catholic Encyclopedia that makes this claim...

169 posted on 03/09/2006 1:44:47 PM PST by magisterium
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To: Search4Truth

If you have the time, please read through the entire thread. The references you seek about Purgatory had been listed repeatedly. Hope this helps.


170 posted on 03/09/2006 1:46:13 PM PST by Romish_Papist (St. Jude, pray for my lost cause. St. Rita, pray for my impossible situation.)
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To: Search4Truth

Have you not read the thread?


171 posted on 03/09/2006 1:47:35 PM PST by Jaded (The truth shall set you free, but lying to yourself turns you French.)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

You weren't necessarily the "crowd".


172 posted on 03/09/2006 1:49:47 PM PST by Jaded (The truth shall set you free, but lying to yourself turns you French.)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
I've never been one to kiss and tell ... and I've never (knowingly) met your SIL ...

Ask her if she ever had a fling with a bird ;'}

173 posted on 03/09/2006 1:50:10 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Romish_Papist

Thanks for the civil and helpful response. But I did read the thread.

I am not one who feels he has to prove anything, and arguments are pointless. I don't believe there is anything here for me to learn. So I think I'll just go back to reading my KJV Bible.

Thanks again.


174 posted on 03/09/2006 1:53:50 PM PST by Search4Truth (Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson.)
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To: Search4Truth

I'm never said you had to prove anything. But you asked someone else to prove something. You were by that asking someone to argue or prove their statement. If arguements are pointless, then why initiate one?

If you get a chance, give the Douay-Rheims or Navarre Bible series a try.


175 posted on 03/09/2006 1:56:17 PM PST by Romish_Papist (St. Jude, pray for my lost cause. St. Rita, pray for my impossible situation.)
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To: Romish_Papist

Arguments are what I'm not looking for. Nor discussions where the Word of God is used as a weapon of argument, rather than a tool of enlightenment.

Good day.


176 posted on 03/09/2006 2:03:49 PM PST by Search4Truth (Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson.)
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To: SaltyJoe

Some of these visions of life after death may be true. Certainly the ones recorded in the New Testament (e.g. Book of Revelation) are true. But the "default position" on such [rivate revelations and visions should be scepticism because of the overwhelming propensity of us human beings to get muddled up in pur minds.


177 posted on 03/09/2006 2:09:05 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Credo in Unam, Sanctam, Catholicam et Apostolicam Ecclesiam.)
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To: mike182d
Peter was a rock but Jesus also describes himself as the rock in many passages.

Like I stated in the prior post, I may be wrong about Peter but it is peripheral to salvation. If I am wrong, I will shake his hand and apologize to him in person.

I am a Christian because of my relationship with a perfect Christ. I am a member of my current church because of my human understanding of how God wants me to worship him. I will not have perfect understanding until I shed this mortal body.

I should have read through the former post a few times before I sent it. It was a very clumsy attempt and did not clearly communicate my point. I am not sure that I have this time either.
178 posted on 03/09/2006 2:11:10 PM PST by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: Search4Truth

"Arguments are what I'm not looking for. Nor discussions where the Word of God is used as a weapon of argument, rather than a tool of enlightenment.

Good day."

But the Word is a two-edged sword.


179 posted on 03/09/2006 2:14:45 PM PST by RoadTest ("- - a popular government cannot flourish without virtue in the people." - Richard Henry Lee, 1786)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
But the "default position" on such [rivate revelations and visions should be scepticism because of the overwhelming propensity of us human beings to get muddled up in pur minds.

Yeah, and to have our right hands be off by one letter when typing on the top row. ;-)

SD

180 posted on 03/09/2006 2:15:22 PM PST by SoothingDave
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