Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Now You See God, Now You Don't
Aish ^ | March 7, 2004 | Sara Yoheved Rigler

Posted on 03/15/2006 5:18:52 AM PST by ET(end tyranny)

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-29 last
To: Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin
Was also wondering about your tagline; "(Pro 26:13 The sluggard saith: 'There is a pierced in the way; yea, a pierced is in the streets.')" I use, KJV. And it says, "lion" instead of, "pierced". Which version uses, "pierced"?

Psalm 22 (KJV)
16   For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they
pierced my hands and my feet.



From the Tanakh (The Jewish Bible)
(17) For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
(18) I may count all my bones; they look and gloat over me.
(19) They part my garments among them, and for my vesture do they cast lots.
(20) But Thou, O YHWH, be not far off; O Thou my strength, hasten to help me.
(21) Deliver my soul from the sword; mine only one from the power of the dog.
(22) Save me from the lion's mouth; yea, from the horns of the wild-oxen do Thou answer me.

From the KJV
Psalm 22
16   For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they
pierced my hands and my feet.
17   I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18   They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19   But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20   Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21   Save me from the
lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22   I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.


From the Hebrew
kiy sebhâbhuniykelâbhiym `adhath merê`iym hiqqiyphuniy kâ'
ariy yâdhay veraghlây

from the Hebrew
738 'ariy ar-ee' or (prolonged) earyeh {ar-yay'};  (in the sense of violence); a lion:--(young) lion, + pierce (from the margin).
1) lion

a) pictures or images of lions


King James Word Usage - Total: 80 lion 79, untranslated variant 1

Can you guess what verse is the VARIANT?

Why, it's this one.... For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.


Either this person in question was pierced by a lion, or the word
pierced doesn't belong in the verse at all.  And what does (from the margin) mean?  It means that someone wrote pierce in the margin of some manuscript, so that when it was transscribed later, the word pierced could be inserted.  And it was.  Since verse 21 of the KJV correctly translates the word into lion, it would seem that the word pierce/d does not belong in verse 16 of the KJV at all.

Also, in case you wonder why the verses are off by 1, its because the first verse from the Tanach is used like an intro in the KJV.  The first verse from the Tanach is:

1 For the Leader; upon Aijeleth ha-Shahar. A Psalm of David.



The exact same word was used in Proverbs 26:13, yet in this verse it was correctly translated as LION.

Proverbs 26:13
The sluggard saith: 'There is a lion in the way; yea, a lion is in the streets.'


21 posted on 03/16/2006 3:21:55 AM PST by ET(end tyranny) (Pro 26:13 The sluggard saith: 'There is a pierced in the way; yea, a pierced is in the streets.')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: ET(end tyranny)

I understand. The Hebrew versions/words are much more all-encompassing. I have come across other situations where a verb stood in place of a noun, and that is simply to cause the reader to do a double-take, and re-evaluate what is being said. One Hebrew word, has many different meanings. We are to pay attention to them all, and apply what is necessary. And voila! We all become the wiser...


22 posted on 03/16/2006 6:22:53 AM PST by Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: ET(end tyranny)

Regarding lion vs pierced in Ps 22:16

The many references to this verse in the Christian Greek New Testament reflect the Greek translation of this verse in the Septuagint Psalms which, as you may have guessed, uses the word pierced.

Christian English translations of Ps 22:16 tend to prefer the traditional use of the word pierced, reflecting the Greek tradition of the verse.

As you have noted, there is a bit of grammar/vocabulary gymnastics required to translate the Hebrew in this verse. The Septuagint took the metaphorphorical road using the word, pierced. Other translations have done the same, while not using the word, pierced.

In my opinion, the JPS translators took the most elegant route when translating this verse.


23 posted on 03/16/2006 7:37:00 AM PST by sanormal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: ET(end tyranny)
"like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet."

What does this statement mean? It sounds like gibberish.

JM
24 posted on 03/16/2006 7:44:50 AM PST by JohnnyM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: ET(end tyranny)

a thought provoking read, found by co-incidence in a timely way... bttt.


25 posted on 03/16/2006 7:51:29 AM PST by Dutchgirl (.Jeg er en dansker (I am a Dane.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vaquero

Okay, at least you have great taste in novels! I hope some day you can join GOD and I for a beer!


26 posted on 03/16/2006 7:52:58 AM PST by badblonde
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: badblonde

Bingo...is that you?


27 posted on 03/16/2006 8:10:17 AM PST by Vaquero (time again for the Crusades.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: ET(end tyranny); All
Psalm 22:16 in depth analysis

JM
28 posted on 03/16/2006 8:41:46 AM PST by JohnnyM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Dutchgirl

And passed on in a timely way as well.


29 posted on 03/17/2006 8:45:18 AM PST by MarMema (Buy Danish, support freedom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-29 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson