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POPE: VIRGIN MARY SAVED POPE JOHN PAUL'S LIFE IN ST. PETER'S
AGI ^ | March 26, 2006

Posted on 03/26/2006 3:50:13 PM PST by NYer

(AGI) - Vatican, March 25 - During the whole 26 years that Pope John Paul II served as pontiff, "everyone was quite aware of the presence of the Virgin Mary as Mother and Queen of the Church during his spirituality and his untiring inistry". But, said the new pontiff, "this presence was most obvious during the attack on his life in St. Peter's Square on May 13, 1981". This was a bold statement from Pope Benedict XVI this morning to the new cardinals and all Catholics on the role the Virgin played in deviating Ali Agca's bullet. He made it during the mass at the close of his first Consistory. In fact, it is widely known that the Polish Pope maintained that the prophecy of the third secret of Fatima was consigned to him, the description of a bishop dressed in white lying in a pool of blood.

On that occasion, Joseph Ratzinger was the regional head (or prefect) of the Holy See and had to explain the Pope's thinking to the public and make it clear that this interpretation was not a dogma of the Catholic faith. And today, looking at the window that is now his after the previous pope's papacy, Benedict XVI added, "in memory of that tragic event, Pope John Paul II wanted a mosaic of the Virgin to be placed high above the Apostolic Palace, overlooking St. Peter's Square. It would be there as a reminder of both the highlights and the more everyday moments of his long papacy, which entered its final phase precisely a year ago, a phase that was simultaneously painful and triumphant, in a way that is appropriate at Easter".


TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Prayer; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: benedictxvi; bvm; fatima; jpii; pope; vatican
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To: reductio
Can you post some Scripture to refute it? [That devotion to Mary is part of salvation.]

John 14:6  
Jesus saith unto him,
I am the way,
the truth,
and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father,
but by me.

61 posted on 03/27/2006 3:54:11 PM PST by Full Court (Baptist History now at www.baptistbookshelf.com)
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To: Full Court

Doesn't exactly answer the question.


62 posted on 03/27/2006 4:04:48 PM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: escapefromboston

What's the question?


63 posted on 03/27/2006 4:21:08 PM PST by Full Court (Baptist History now at www.baptistbookshelf.com)
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To: Full Court

I'll address your odd questions if you have the wisdom and courage to answer the following things about Baptist beliefs:




Why Does the Bible Mention Brothers of Jesus?

Why Does the Bible Use 'Adelphos' instead of 'Anepsios'?

Since Jesus Was First-born, Didn't He Have Siblings?

Does Matthew 1:25 Say that Mary Had Sexual Relations?

Does John 2:17 Prove that Mary Had Many Children?

Does Romans 3:23 Teach that Mary Sinned?




Yes, this is a setup.


64 posted on 03/27/2006 4:36:25 PM PST by AlaninSA (It's one nation under God -- brought to you by the Knights of Columbus)
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To: AlaninSA

I can't agree with a person who would assign a human being the same powers and status as Jesus Christ.

It's blasphemy.


65 posted on 03/27/2006 4:42:42 PM PST by Full Court (Baptist History now at www.baptistbookshelf.com)
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To: Full Court
I can't agree with a person who would assign a human being the same powers and status as Jesus Christ.

It's blasphemy.

Agreed. Now if you can point me to that person who is making a goddess out of Mary I'll gladly give them a verbal thrashing.
66 posted on 03/27/2006 5:42:14 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Full Court

You can't answer the questions because you know the answers would expose the weaknesses in your theology.

Too bad...

I thought you may actually be able to defend your own faith...you're so bad at attacking mine.


67 posted on 03/27/2006 5:55:31 PM PST by AlaninSA (It's one nation under God -- brought to you by the Knights of Columbus)
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To: Full Court

No. Inasmuch, however, as ALL human or angelic intercessors in such matters derive their powers from God, there is no basis for your jumping to this conclusion to begin with. Besides, what about St. Paul's "intercession" in Acts 20:9, which I already alluded to?

NO ONE claims that Mary is God, you should know that well enough, you've certainly seen many posts here on FR from Catholics emphatically denying the charge. Your feigned ignorance of the Catholic position here is most telling. Re-read what I said in the post you were responding to: ANY heavenly intercessors, be they angels or saints, undertake their intercession with the consent of God, through His power, and for His glory. If you don't understand that, go take it up with St. Paul, St. Peter or any of the saints mentioned in Revelation 8 who intercede for us here below.


68 posted on 03/27/2006 6:06:24 PM PST by magisterium
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To: AlaninSA

I don't know what your faith is, so I am not attacking "it". I am however defending jesus Christ against blasphemy. I will continue to do so until my dying breath.


69 posted on 03/27/2006 7:19:46 PM PST by Full Court (Baptist History now at www.baptistbookshelf.com)
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To: Full Court
My intercession is the same as Mary's. ... For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Your conclusion does not follow from the Scripture passage because you do not do the will of God with the same degree of obedience as did/does Mary.

-A8

70 posted on 03/27/2006 8:11:56 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: Full Court
I am however defending jesus Christ against blasphemy.

Where do you think Jesus is being blasphemed here?

-A8

71 posted on 03/27/2006 8:13:08 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: magisterium
Your reply was also just about what was expected.

That's what I'm here for. To make sure you can make it thru the day with relatively few surprises. (eye roll)

72 posted on 03/28/2006 6:23:31 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: adiaireton8
Your conclusion does not follow from the Scripture passage because you do not do the will of God with the same degree of obedience as did/does Mary.

Mary is dead. I am alive. So my degree of obedience if much greater to the will of God. I am able to do it.

Also, Jesus said that who ever does the will of God is the same as his mother and brothers and sisters.

So, I am the same as Mary.

Since she is dead and can't hear your prayers to her, maybe you should start praying to me.

73 posted on 03/28/2006 7:28:37 AM PST by Full Court (Baptist History now at www.baptistbookshelf.com)
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To: adiaireton8

When someone says that devotion to Mary is salvational, that is blasphemy against Jesus Christ.

Mary died for no one.

Her blood was not shed to cleanse us from our sins.


74 posted on 03/28/2006 7:30:12 AM PST by Full Court (Baptist History now at www.baptistbookshelf.com)
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To: NYer

Where does it say that Mary saved his life?


75 posted on 03/28/2006 8:36:00 AM PST by BooksForTheRight.com (what have you done today to fight terrorism/leftism (same thing!))
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To: Full Court

Blasphemy is the word that comes to mind for me too. It also saddens me. If, by what we hear over and over again, that Mary only "points the way", then this article is bogus. Or we've got a misunderstanding of RC doctrine by many of our FR friends.

There is NO ONE here at FR that has ever claimed that Mary saves. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)


76 posted on 03/28/2006 8:39:51 AM PST by bonfire
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To: bonfire; reductio
reductio said:
As a Catholic who believes in devotion to the Blessed Mother,
and stating further that I believe that devotion to the Mother of God is in fact inseparably connected with salvation...

bonfire said: There is NO ONE here at FR that has ever claimed that Mary saves. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

77 posted on 03/28/2006 10:09:04 AM PST by Full Court (Baptist History now at www.baptistbookshelf.com)
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To: Full Court
Mary is dead. I am alive. So my degree of obedience if much greater to the will of God. I am able to do it.

You do not understand death, apparently. When God told Moses that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who were already dead, Jesus points out that God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. (Mark 12) Jesus did this to show the Sadducees (who denied the resurrection) that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob were not non-existent, but merely temporarily separated from their bodies, to which they would return at the resurrection. Similarly, the writer to Hebrews (Heb 12:1) tells us that we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, those who have gone before us. And how is it, then, that dead people can cry out to God?(Rev 6:9-10) To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, as Paul says. Therefore, Mary can pray, and does pray, for us as do all the departed saints.

Also, Jesus said that who ever does the will of God is the same as his mother and brothers and sisters. So, I am the same as Mary.

That's a non sequitur, as I explained earlier. Not only does your level of obedience fall short of that of Mary's, but you did not give birth to Christ. Mary is His mother in a way that no one else can be. And Mary's holiness surpasses that of you and me. The Church teaches that Mary has a special relation to Christ, since she literally is the Mother of God, not just in the general sense of belonging to the Church and thus being part of Christ's body.

-A8

78 posted on 03/28/2006 11:53:34 AM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: Full Court
John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Well, I hope no one else played a role in your salvation (e.g. your parents, your friends, relatives, neighbors, pastor, etc.), because otherwise it wasn't "by Me", and thus apparently it wasn't coming unto the Father.

-A8

79 posted on 03/28/2006 11:56:20 AM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: magisterium
I am not a Roman Catholic, but I think the world of John Paul 11 and was outraged and shocked by the attempt on his life.

Santo subito would be a just reward (if that is an appropriate word)

RIP - JP11

80 posted on 03/28/2006 12:02:22 PM PST by Churchillspirit (Anaheim Angels - 2002 World Series Champions)
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