Posted on 04/14/2006 6:32:26 PM PDT by DouglasKC
Not at all, either corporately or philosophically.
This, I believe, would indicate the Arianism of Armstrong survives in your group.
Which leads to the age-old problem: Either Jesus is not divine or you leave monotheism.
Which way does your group go?
The term Judaizers continues long into the third century - long after Acts.
It even continues until today.
You need to read further. Arianism taught, I believe, that father and son were not co-eternal and that the father created the son.
The bible teaches that the father and son have always existed together eternally.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
United agrees with this view.
I believe you are correct in that I painted you with too broad a brush. I was lumping you in with the Messianic Jews. And I don't think you belong there.
My apologies.
Thanks, it's not pure Arianism, Armstrong wasn't pure anything but an amalgamation.
And my original questions remain.
I wonder, do you personally believe this:
"When we understand that the modern descendants of Joseph are the people of the United States and Britain…"
I think he popularized biblical truths that had been buried by culture and society. I believe that many sects of Christianity have bits and pieces of truth, but he studied the bible and put these bits and pieces together into a comprehensive teaching that most closely expounds the biblical truth God wishes to convey. It could have been anyone, but God chose to use him to spread the truth.
And my original questions remain.
In all the excitment I don't remember what they were.
In all the excitment I don't remember what they were.
I'd teach you about the scroll bar, but me thinks you are just avoiding the question.
"Armstrongism" implies that he made it up whole cloth. All of the doctrine has existed for at least 2000 years and longer.
"When we understand that the modern descendants of Joseph are the people of the United States and Britain…"
I think of all the doctrine that this is the hardest to prove on strictly a biblical basis. God doesn't come right out and say this. I think though that the biblical support for this belief is sound. When coupled with historical and contemporary facts, then yes, I do believe this.
This isn't exactly a new thought. Many early Americans believed that America was the "new Israel". The "shining city on a hill". Manifest destiny, etc.
Actually, no, not a prophet. I don't consider his words or idea's gospel truth as SDA's consider Ellen White a prophetess. But he was an effective evangelist.
I'd teach you about the scroll bar, but me thinks you are just avoiding the question.
No, I'm not. I used the scroll bar. You're first posts were comments (some snotty) and contained no questions. Then you had questions which I answered to the best of my ability.
His original question can be found in post #41. I think he mellowed somewhat since then. LOL
Thanks diego :-)
Yes, Jesus was a jew and his earliest disciples were jews.
So, you gonna be a jew too?
No.
Or are you simply lost in the time warp?
No.
The question was about Jesus's divinity and monotheism. Was He and are you?
More specifically: Does your group hold Armstrongs anti-trinitarianism - the family of Gods doctrine/theology?
I answered the question in post 62. Yes and yes.
More specifically: Does your group hold Armstrongs anti-trinitarianism - the family of Gods doctrine/theology?
You'll have to define what you mean, or be more specific. I'm not going to answer a question based on your supposition of the thoughts of a man who died twenty years ago.
He had a good kick start from Seventh Day Adventists.
All of the doctrine has existed for at least 2000 years and longer.
Armstrong wasn't that orginal, but his combining and shaping of different pieces, Job and the pyramids for example, was original. Pretty much died with him, though his son gave it a good show for some time.
This isn't exactly a new thought. Many early Americans believed that America was the "new Israel".
That's a funny stretch to literal direct descendancy from Joseph.
God doesn't come right out and say this. I think though that the biblical support for this belief is sound.
Which goes to show how "scripture only and no tradition" can become quite meaningless.
Douglas....do you have any info on this?
Your churh's statement of beliefs says Jesus and God are two. Further on in the quote from your church which I posted earlier:
The Bible reveals God as the "Father" and Jesus Christ as His "Son." The distinction between the two is implicit from the very beginning of God's revelation (Genesis 1:1), where the Hebrew word Elohim is used (Elohim is the plural form of the Hebrew word for God, Eloah). There has been communication between these two from the beginning, as seen in the example of Genesis 1:26, where the pronouns us and our refer to Elohim.
If you disagree with the above, let me know. If not, then how can Jesus be divine, Jesus and God the Father be "distict," "plural" and "two" - and your religion still remain monotheistic?
Not surprising considering they have similar origins. Corporately, Armstrong was a minister in the Church of God, 7th Day before starting Worldwide. The COG, 7th day, were descended from the Millerite movement, which also spawned the SDA's. They usually trace their history back to colonial America with the 7th Day Baptists who established a church in 1671. Before this, there existed other sabbath keepers throughout history going back to Christ.
God doesn't come right out and say this. I think though that the biblical support for this belief is sound.
Which goes to show how "scripture only and no tradition" can become quite meaningless.
I said that tradition is fine, but when it disagrees with scripture, I'll pick scripture. In this case I believe tradition agrees with scripture.
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