Pope: may all Christians recognize true meaning of Peter’s primacy

AsiaNews ^ | 7 June, 2006

[markomalley]

Christians hold the Old Testament fulfilled, and do not hold it as being authoritative like we do the New Testament.

You might want to SERIOUSLY think about clarifying that statement, FRiend...

[bornacatholic]

Isaias 51

Give ear to me, you that follow that which is just, and you that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence you are hewn, and to the hole of the pit from which you are dug out. 2 Look unto Abraham your father

* God called Abraham a rock

[NYer]

The Primacy of Peter

[markomalley]

For the record,

121 The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value,92 for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

122 Indeed, "the economy of the Old Testament was deliberately SO oriented that it should prepare for and declare in prophecy the coming of Christ, redeemer of all men."93 "Even though they contain matters imperfect and provisional,94 The books of the OldTestament bear witness to the whole divine pedagogy of God's saving love: these writings "are a storehouse of sublime teaching on God and of sound wisdom on human life, as well as a wonderful treasury of prayers; in them, too, the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way."95

123 Christians venerate the Old Testament as true Word of God. the Church has always vigorously opposed the idea of rejecting the Old Testament under the pretext that the New has rendered it void (Marcionism).

Just thought that needed to be clarified before it spins out of control.

[trisham]

"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven"

***************

Amen. Thank you, Pope Benedict for reminding us of this.

[Alex Murphy]

Just thought that needed to be clarified before it spins out of control.

Much appreciated. To be fair to Theoden and Catholics in general, there are lots of Protestants, too, who hold to the same error - functionally, if not literally and openly. You can easily identify them by their shibboleth "but we're under grace now, not the law!"

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness
- 1 Timothy 3:16

[Theoden]

It was an honest question, and I don't mean to start a flame war here. You can just send me mail if you don't want this public. Actually, I should have sent that as a PM in the first place. My fault.

[Theoden]

I should not have phrased it like that in retrospect. I understand the importance of the Old Testament, that it IS the word of God, and that is divinely inspired, that not what I meant. What I was getting at was ONLY using the OT as a source of authority. That is what I don't understand.

I'm not as old as you guys, I haven't had the time to read up on it ;)

[Kenny Bunkport]

...according to Catholic tradition.

[Uri’el-2012]

Isaias 51

Give ear to me, you that follow that which is just,
and you that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence you are hewn,
and to the hole of the pit from which you are dug out. 2 Look unto Abraham your father

* God called Abraham a rock

22 posted on 06/08/2006 7:45:31 AM MDT by bornacatholic

That is not my understanding.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that understanding.

b'shem Y'shua

[Iscool]

then you are equating Christ with the servant, rather than the king (Hezekiah

I don't have a problem with it...Jesus is not YET the King...But He will be...

[Petrosius]

Nice try guys, but you cannot run away from the clear words of our Lord. Do you not understand that by denying this that you are the ones who are violating sola scriptura and introducing human tradition by relying on your confessional interpretations that would move the meaning of our Lord's words from referring to Peter, whom He named 'Rock', to refer to only his confession. Nor do you address the institution of a unique office given to Peter by the conferral of the keys.

[Alex Murphy]

Jesus is not YET the King...But He will be...

Ohhhh boy. That's going to get a lot of responses!

[Petrosius]

...according to Catholic tradition.

Well, actually according to the words of our Lord himself. Or do you consider that the Gospel according to Matthew is only a part of Catholic tradition. Come to think about it, you have a point. We do only accept Matthew, and the rest of the New Testament, because it was given to us by Catholic tradition.

[Iscool]

Isaiah...Verse 1, the reference to the rock is God...Verse 2, the reference is Abraham...

[Iscool]

The people who deny the Petrine Doctrine cannot see the forest through the trees, and choose to stay that way. Let them. One day, they will find out, as we all shall. If they want to constantly strain their eyes by being so tunnel visioned in the reading and interpreting of their edited, abridged, and mistranslated KJ Bibles, so what?

You are SO mistaken...We see what you see...But we want no part of it...

[markomalley]

In fact, if you take a look at the Aramaic of Matthew, you will discover that both instances of "Rock" in English are the word "Keepa" (IIRC on spelling...no time to look it up right now) -- thus the transliteration, Cephas, for Peter.

Many scholars (in fact most to my knowledge) believe that Matthew was originally written in Aramaic, btw.

Just thought I'd throw that one in the stew for consideration.

You can look for yourself at http://www.peshitta.org

[markomalley]

I don't have a problem with it...

Thou sayest...

Oh, btw, FYI Matt 27:11 (KJV) "And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest."

Mark 15:2 (KJV) "And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest [it]."

Luke 23:3 (KJV)"And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest [it]."

You'll forgive me if I prefer the words of our Lord.

[Uri’el-2012]

I have a question for you.
Why do you constantly quote Old Testament when dealing with other Christians here?
Christians hold the Old Testament fulfilled,
and do not hold it as being authoritative like we do the New Testament.
One can interpret and quote Scripture into saying anything that they want it to say.
I am not being snide or anything like that,
I genuinely want to understand why it is that you still hold the Torah to be authoritative,
and yet are a Christian.
I do not understand the Messianic views.

Thanks

18 posted on 06/08/2006 7:34:14 AM MDT by Theoden

Y'shua is the "Word of G-d". Is He not?

All scripture that was quoted by Y'shua was from the Tanach.

Did Y'shua say ignore the Tanach? I don't think so.

Y'shua rebuked the Pharisees for ignoring the Tanach and using man-made Tradition instead.

I believe that Y'shua is the Mashiach as for-told in G-d's Holy Word: the Tanach.

b'shem Y'shua

[Frumanchu]

Jesus is not YET the King...But He will be...

Friend, Jesus IS NOW the King. His Kingdom has been inaugurated. What we await is the full and final consumation of His Kingdom. He is on the throne, in complete control.