Vatican opposes female clergy anywhere, gives reasons from Bible

Associated Press ^ | Saturday, July 8, 2006 | Richard N. Ostling

[dollars_for_dogma]

Why not follow the church of Iscool.

You first.

How is that any different then following the Church of the Pope?

There is no such thing as "the Church of the Pope."

Next stupid question...

[marajade]

So the Pope isn't the head of the Catholic Church?

[dollars_for_dogma]

This question:

How is that any different then following the Church of the Pope?

...is not the same as this question:

So the Pope isn't the head of the Catholic Church?

The first one is belligerence; the second is a valid question.

[marajade]

Then answer it.

[dollars_for_dogma]

Then answer it.

Yes...dear.


The Bishop of Rome (the Pope) is the Vicar of Christ,

and Peter's successor.

The Bishop of Rome "is the perpetual and

visible source and foundation of the unity, both of the

bishops, and of the whole company of the faithful."

[marajade]

Funny, I always believed in my heart that Christ was the head of the Church.

[Jaded]

Here's a piece of history.... Luther was Catholic before he started his own religion after adding to the bible.

[dollars_for_dogma]

Funny, I always believed in my heart that Christ was the head of the Church.

I was waiting for this...

And you are correct, Christ does lead His Church.

[marajade]

"And you are correct, Christ does lead His Church."

Glad to hear it. So when presented with a scripture that says to do this and when presented with the Pope that says to do that instead, who are you going to follow?

[marajade]

"Luther was Catholic before he started his own religion after adding to the bible."

But NYer used him in defense of 2nd Peter 1:20. Why?

[dollars_for_dogma]

So when presented with a scripture that says to do this and when presented with the Pope that says to do that instead, who are you going to follow?

We have two choices here:

We could follow the "word" according to the

personal interpretation of Marajade....

Or...

we can follow the Word according to the authority of the

Catholic Church, the Bride of Christ, the College of

Bishops, successors of the Apostles, and 2000 years of

Catholic Church teaching and history...

[marajade]

And what about following the word before there was a Catholic Church?

[dollars_for_dogma]

And what about following the word before there was a Catholic Church?

The Catholic Church traces its roots to about 33 A.D.

[marajade]

Did not Constantine found the Catholic Church? That was much later than 33 AD wasn't it? Funny, I thought the Church was founded in the book of Acts? You know when Jesus Christ descended back to earth from heaven.

[dollars_for_dogma]

Did not Constantine found the Catholic Church?

LOL!

You have deciphered the Code of Marajade.

"...and Constantine packed the College of Bishops with

men subordinate to his will, who would carry out any

directive, no matter how evil."

Funny, I thought the Church was founded in the book of Acts? You know when Jesus Christ descended back to earth from heaven.

You are confusing the coming of the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, with the Ascension.

The Apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit so that

so that they could spread the Good News (and without a

Bible, no less) throughout most of the known world.

Forty days after the Resurrection, the Lord ascended

into Heaven.

[Iscool]

This is full of so many holes, it looks like Swiss Cheese...

AUTHORITY - Should the Bible be the final authority of Christianity or the Church?

Well, Christ stated that the Church, NOT Scripture should be the final authority: "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17) Christ did NOT state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction. He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The scripture says the 'scripture is the authority...In many cases, Paul wrote the scripture to the churches to establish rules and in the case of the Corinthians, Paul corrected them on many counts...And obviously churches disregard the scripture and make themselves the 'authority' instead of the scripture...Just as you are advocating...

In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, NOT Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15) Since the Church alone is mentioned as THE pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The living God is the pillar and ground of the truth, not the church...Paul is in the process of instructing the church...How could anyone get that wrong???

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Your post was so far out of context, it doesn't even make sense...And then Christ says:

Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has no spot, wrinkle or blemish (Ephesians 5:27).

And why is this??? Because the church is perfect??? Of course not...

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Jesus took our sins...He gave us his righteousness...

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

As born again Christians, we have become sinless...Without spot or blemish...

The church is the bride of Christ...The question is; who or what is the church...

And the answer of course is:

Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The church is; any and all sinners who got saved...Am I saved??? Sure am...Do I belong to your Church...Heavens NO...I belong to Christ's church...Which is the body of believers, not an organization, or a fancy building...

Christ also stated that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18) so how can the Church commit error?

So in your view the church at Corinth was the Catholic church...That answered that question...

The 'church' committing error has nothing to do with the gates of hell prevailing against it...Jesus Christ has the keys to the gates of Hell, not your church...

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

And the office of "apostle" is to be continued (Acts 1:20-26) to the present day.

You didn't find that in that Scripture...You made that up...

HEAD OF THE CHURCH - Is there to be a visible "head" of the Church here on earth? Well, as I established under the heading of "Organization," not all believers are to have the same authority or equality within the Church. Did the Apostles have the EXACT SAME authority amongst themselves. NO, they did not. For it was St. Peter alone that was the "rock" upon which Christ established His Church (Matthew 16:18). And it was St. Peter alone that was given the task of "feeding" Christ's sheep (John 21:15-17). Scripture clearly points out St. Peter as Christ's representative on earth. Christ did not ask the other Eleven to feed and tend His sheep. If you read The Acts Of The Apostles, it is clear that St. Peter leads the Apostles.

What then was the need for the other eleven Apostles??? Paul had rebuked Peter for teaching the wrong thing...That's quite an endorsement for the HEAD apostle, eh??? And then in Acts 15: 20-35 we can see where all of the apostles wrote letters and sent some of their own with Paul to correct the errors they made in teaching to the churches

Therefore, since the Apostles are to be replaced as they die (Acts 1:20-26), then it follows that whoever succeed(s) St. Peter is leader of the Church.

And that clearly would be the Apostle Paul...The mystery of the Church was given to Paul...Paul was given the responsibility of teaching the mystery of adoption to the Gentiles...

There is only to be one shepherd of the Church (John 10:16).

If you are implying that Peter is the one Shepherd, you need to leave Disneyland...

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

This is Jesus speaking, NOT Peter...

For the Apostles did not argue amongst themselves whether there was a "greatest" at all, but who amongst them was THE greatest (Mark 9:34; Luke 9:46).

Mar 9:34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
Mar 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

Speaks for itself...

In conclusion, Scripture is pretty straightforward about the Church's role in salvation

In scripture, it's crystal clear that the church has NO role in salvation...Salvation is a personal issue between the sinner and Jesus Christ...And when that sinner accepts Christ as his Savior, that sinner becomes a member of the Church of God, the Body of Christ...

So in conclusion, here are some of the reason the Catholics says to stay clear of the Scriptures...And to not believe the Scripture, but believe the church...

[Barnacle]

Here we go with that labelling again. Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not a label.

That "labelling"? Well, you can respond to my post or, say "that labelling again." The choice is yours.

[Barnacle]

No, that's only reserved for Catholics who believe that those who aren't are going to hell.

Your sarcasm aside; I don't speak for all Catholics of for the Catholic Church, but I certainly don't believe as you might think. After all, I have a brother who is a Protestant minister. And, I know many good Christians who are not Catholic, and that God knows who are his servants.