Posted on 07/24/2006 8:28:49 AM PDT by topcat54
Show me where it did happen. It should be easy for you. It isn't the destruction of the Temple. The Abomination is something that was abhorent to God - such as the idol that Antiochus Epiphanes set up prior to New Testament times. The abomination is something that is set up - like an image of the beast.
By the way, that abomination occurs mid-point in the Tribulation period- the period which ends with the Lord's return at Armageddon. Since this has not occurred, then one must assume it is yet future.
Here is John MacArthur's put: http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg2369.htm
How about John 16:33? Christ has overcome the world. Christ reigns today. Christ sits on the right hand of God the Father at this very moment.
Your positive preaching, Pastor, proves the point you question.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." -- Isaiah 45:22-23
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
"For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." -- Romans 14:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." -- Philippians 2:10-11 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Why the Great Commission if it is not God's will that the earth be converted to Christ, that every knee bow?
To quote nmh's post #12:
"When I view some of the comments on this thread, it's shocking to know how Biblically challenged some are and they're smug about it!"
have an excellent day Mr. Murphy.
It means Christ reigns today.
And it means He ain't leaving Heaven (i.e. no Second Coming) until some things get done first.
Of course He does. Nobody disputes that. At least I don't. But I also believe He will literally and physically reign on earth in the future. God is Sovereign. Nobody but the Lord is in charge.
I can agree with that. We are caught up to Him. We don't meet Him on the earth.
I don't believe any of the (current) participants on this thread are disputing that. Just the timing, the lead-in events, and the events of (future) history which precede His literal and physical presence.
I really prefer His present reign to the imaginary scenario posited by dispensationalists. Today, I can talk to my Lord at any moment, any time, any place. In their millenium, our Lord's physical presence will once again be limited to one body, in one place. And the guy with the Jerusalem porta-potty franchise will get rich!
A Jesus reigning now, from the Father's right hand, eager to hear us and empower us to act like servants of the Kingdom today -- or, a Jesus at the far end of a miles-long line of footsore pilgrims sweltering in the Jerusalem mid-day sun. Really, which vision sounds more appealing? Let alone more Biblical?
Psalm 110 is the OT chapter most frequently quoted in the NT.
By the way, that abomination occurs mid-point in the Tribulation period- the period which ends with the Lord's return at Armageddon. Since this has not occurred, then one must assume it is yet future.
I suspect you have some verses in mind to support your schema, but that is not apparent to me.
Smith's Bible DictionaryMentioned by our Saviour, (Matthew 24:15) as a sign of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem, with reference to (Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11) The prophecy referred ultimately to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, and consequently the "abomination" must describe some occurrence connected with that event. It appears most probable that the profanities of the Zealots constituted the abomination, which was the sign of the impending ruin; but most people refer it to the standards or banners of the Roman army. They were abomination because there were idolatrous images upon them.
Easton's Bible Dictionary: Desolation, Abomination of
(Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; Compare Luke 21:20), is interpreted of the eagles, the standards of the Roman army, which were an abomination to the Jews. These standards, rising over the site of the temple, were a sign that the holy place had fallen under the idolatrous Romans. The references are to Daniel 9:27.
I really prefer His present reign to the imaginary scenario posited by dispensationalists. Today, I can talk to my Lord at any moment, any time, any place. In their millenium, our Lord's physical presence will once again be limited to one body, in one place. And the guy with the Jerusalem porta-potty franchise will get rich!
A Jesus reigning now, from the Father's right hand, eager to hear us and empower us to act like servants of the Kingdom today -- or, a Jesus at the far end of a miles-long line of footsore pilgrims sweltering in the Jerusalem mid-day sun. Really, which vision sounds more appealing? Let alone more Biblical?
Psalm 110 is the OT chapter most frequently quoted in the NT.
"And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others." (Dan. 2:40)
There is no such "revival" pictured at all in Daniel. MacArthur sees a "revival" because of his hermeneutical bias regarding the end times. In reality Daniel only sees the one and only, original Roman Empire. It followed on the Greek, etc empires. It has passed into history, and now the Kingdom of Christ is being established throughout the world. There will be no revival. That is the plain reading of Daniel 2.
There is an arrogance in your message tghat you're not picking up. You are assuming that dispensationalists have ignored the other views. That's an arrogant assumption. Most of us, who have studied the subject for years, have looked at each of the views for their biblical basis. I, and I'm sure Mr. MacArthur, have come to the conclusion based on Scripture that our "dispensational" view is correct. But, I can have equal respect for those who also having studied Scripture have come up with a view separate from my own. I dealt with that a lot a seminary. As long as Scripture was respected, I could respect that.
I did NOT assume that they hadn't studied Scripture.
Daniel's prophecy is future for one reason that you are ignoring - Israel. Israel had to become a nation again before the "time of the end" could even begin. From 70 AD until 1948, she wasn't a nation. Ponder these Scriptures and see how the Preterist view fails in this point. You may still disagree, but don't disdain us by suggesting we haven't studied the matter.
Amos 9:14-15 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.
Ezekiel 36:24-29 24 "'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you
Ezekiel 39:27-29 27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will show myself holy through them in the sight of many nations. 28 Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD Zechariah 10:8-12 8 "I will whistle for them to gather them together, For I have redeemed them; And they will be as numerous as they were before. 9 "When I scatter them among the peoples, They will remember Me in far countries, And they with their children will live and come back. 10 "I will bring them back from the land of Egypt And gather them from Assyria; And I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon Until no room can be found for them. 11 "And He will pass through the sea of distress And strike the waves in the sea, So that all the depths of the Nile will dry up; And the pride of Assyria will be brought down And the scepter of Egypt will depart. 12 "And I will strengthen them in the LORD, And in His name they will walk," declares the LORD
These Scriptures have not come to pass in full yet. God's prophecy for the end times is yet future. It does not involve the world getting better, but worse before He comes. Then the time of Jacob's trouble will see the ultimate fulfillment of these verses and others.
Stop your mockery. You are misrepresenting our view. At least argue like a man and not a child.
Good grief. These threads are about as profitable as the Crevo threads!
Sorry. Nice try.
Where do all of the tribes of Israel come from in Revelation? And don't say Jehovah's witnesses. The tribes are specified by name.
We were GRAFTED INTO the vine. We did not obliterate or replace the vine. The vine is still there. The vine, being the Jews, are blinded IN PART until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Then, They will look on them whom they have pierced and mourn as one mourns for their only son.
Zechariah 12
9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Romans 11
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Luke 21:
20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
I have been where you were, but God in His sovereign mercy delivered me from being a cheerleader for the other team. As I came to embrace the confidence of 'victory in Jesus' for the big picture, I began experiencing victory in Jesus in my own life, family, and vocation. All were transformed by a more consistently Biblical, and more optimistic, eschatology.
Why preach the failure of the gospel as good news? Only reason I can figure -- to excuse one's one mediocrity and failures in life. How long has it been since Christianity produced a Bach, Milton, or Michaelangelo? Today, the leading voice in the field of science fiction that honors the name of Jesus is a Mormon. There are reasons for mediocrity -- mainly, a lack of vision, and the consequent failure to engage in long-term disciplined pursuit of excellence for the glory of God.
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