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To: .30Carbine
Let me elaborate a little by relaying a story about John Newton. That great Calvinist (I think anyway), who wrote the ever-verdant Amazing Grace. Following his conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit, and his penning that hymn that has few, if any, equals, he always referred to himself as 'that old slave trader.' Of course, he knew he was forgiven by Our Lord and through His Blood, but he never forgot to remember his sin.

Along with Saint Newton, let me elaborate a little more via Scripture.

"Two people went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, was praying thus, 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people: thieves, rogues, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of all my income.' But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even look up to heaven, but was beating his breast and saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his home justified rather than the other." (Luke 18:10-14a)"

Again, he that was justified presented himself to God beating his breast: mea culpa, mea culpa, mea massima culpa.

“And there were also two other malefactors, led with Him to be put to death. And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, they crucified Him there: and the robbers, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. And Jesus said: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do; but they, dividing his garments, cast lots. And the people stood beholding. And the rulers with them derided him, saying: He saved others: let him save himself, if he be Christ, the elect of God” (Lk 23:32-35).

“And one of those robbers who were hanged blasphemed him, saying: If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering, rebuked him, saying: Neither dost thou fear God, seeing; thou art under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly: for we receive the due reward of our deeds. But this man hath done no evil. And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee: This day thou shalt be with me in paradise” (Lk 23:39-43).

The Good Thief said, 'for we receive the due reward of our deeds', again convicted to the core of his sin.

A woman who has hired a third party to dismember her baby should remember herself always as 'that mother who slew her own child.' She doesn't have to articulate that to anyone but God and herself, but she does need to follow the example of John Newton, and never forget it. All of the women I know who have had abortions do not consider that they belong in jail, along with all of those other people who have snuffed out a life, and who did serve time.

Do you remember one of my early posts to you that described the encounter I had with the convict who openly declared himself a murderer to me? No woman I know who has had an abortion is as convicted of sin in her own heart as this gentleman was. That isn't to say they don't exist, but that I've not met one, and I know several women who have had abortions. Even in the pro-life community ambivalence exists as it relates to abortion. It seems to me that very few people view the taking of the life of a baby with the same horror that they viewed Simpson slitting his wife's throat. She at least got a burial. The remains of these babies are thrown in the trash as if they were spoiled food. What's warranted is remembering that nothing speaks total depravity like abortion does.

That doesn't mean that I think people who never forget to remember their grievous sin should be dour, or not rejoice in the Blood of the Lamb, and their new Life. Joy is the order of the day.

53 posted on 08/09/2006 7:21:04 AM PDT by AlbionGirl
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To: AlbionGirl
Your point is well taken. I think it is only be dragged by the Holy Spirit Himself that any of us can bear to look at the awful things we have done.

No woman I know who has had an abortion is as convicted of sin in her own heart as this gentleman was. That isn't to say they don't exist, but that I've not met one, and I know several women who have had abortions.

Before you said it, look at how she described herself:

Because of what He has done for me, for me personally, this wretched vile murderous creature, because of Who He Is and Who He Sent, I live in awe every day of my life in Christ. Oh! this is freedom and this is life from the dead!

When I forget the hideousness of my sins all I need to do is look at the cross to remember it.

Cordially,

56 posted on 08/09/2006 8:14:55 AM PDT by Diamond
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To: AlbionGirl; Diamond

.30, I want to apologize to you for my last post. It isn't that I don't believe what I posted, because Ido, but that I believe it was insensitive, pompous and blowhard-y. I hadn't read your entire post to me when I responded, and when I went back and did, it was obvious your mind and heart are both with Jesus, and because of that my pontificating is not only inappropriate, it's worthless. So, please accept my sincere apology, and the Lord be with you, always.


58 posted on 08/09/2006 8:29:14 AM PDT by AlbionGirl
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To: AlbionGirl; Diamond; Gamecock; Clay+Iron_Times
Dear One, I receive your sincere apology and tell you I love you! I pray that we are not speaking with opposing purpose, but as one, and certain things occur to me from Scripture and I feel certain that it is very important that I post them:

Romans 10:4 (in the Amplified)

For Christ is the end of the Law [the limit at which it ceases to be, for the Law leads up to Him Who is the fulfillment of its types, and in Him the purpose which it was designed to accomplish is fulfilled. That is, the purpose of the Law is fulfilled in Him] as the means of righteousness (right relationship to God) for everyone who trusts in and adheres to and relies on Him.

Using your example from the Scripture of the two thieves on their crosses next to Jesus, I ask, once Jesus discoursed with him who recognized the Lord (Luke 23:42-43)...

Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come in Your kingly glory!"

And He answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

...did the repentant man , believe and rejoice, or failing to believe the Word spoken to him did he take up a lament?

How much lamenting over past sin, once forgiveness is granted, is enough? From the other Scripture passage you cite:

"I tell you, this man went down to his home justified (forgiven and made upright and in right standing with God), rather than the other man; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted [will EXALT]."

Another passage of Scripture comes to mind (Hebrews 10:16-39):

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was [indeed] sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward! For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

“ For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
Now the just
[that is, those who are justified, see Romans 3:26 and 8:32-34]

shall live!

by faith;

But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

The joy of the Lord is my strength!

Colossians 2:6-10

As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up! in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.

Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

A reminder to any heart willing to receive the Truth:

The ground is level at the foot of the cross.

PS - You post: "Let me elaborate a little by relaying a story about John Newton. That great Calvinist..."

John Newton was a Christian - that is, he was looking to Christ for his salvation, not Calvin. I state publicly and boldly that he (and every saint!) would choose the name Christian before, above and even excluding if necessary the name "Calvinist." He wrote songs blessing the God of his salvation, not man. The epitaph which he wrote with his own hand:

JOHN NEWTON, Clerk
Once an infidel and libertine
A servant of slaves in Africa,
Was, by the rich mercy of our Lord and Saviour JESUS CHRIST,
restored, pardoned, and appointed to preach
the Gospel which he had long laboured to destroy.
He ministered,
Near sixteen years in Olney, in Bucks,
And twenty-eight years in this Church.

83 posted on 08/10/2006 4:48:11 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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