You Know Where To Go (to complain about liturgical dance)

Curt Jester ^ | August 17, 2006

[NYer]

Francis Cardinal Arinze

[NYer]

Gotta love him!

[muawiyah]

For what? Since it's customary in so many parts of Africa for dance to be entertwined with sex, he probably doesn't imagine dance could have to with anything but sex.

Dervishes manage to have dance without sex, and not all the Hindu dances have to do with Shiva's journey through history.

Gad, whatever has become of the RCs, have they all gone over to the Seventh Day Baptists or what?

[Miss Marple]

If you have ever had to sit through liturgical dance, you would agree 100% with the Cardinal. It is distracting, the costumes are often inappropriate, and it does nothing to enhance one's thoughts of God. Instead, your thoughts are "Why is that woman wearing that too-tight top?" or "This looks like 'One Grecian Urn" from 'The Music Man'" or "When will this be over?"

I also find skits, clowns, and folk-music masses to be inappropriate. I am a Catholic convert and suffered through many "performances" in Protestant worship services, and they are simply entertainment.

I support the Cardinal, and am glad to hear that someone is speaking out about it. My sister's parish had a FLAMENCO MASS. Can you imagine that, with all of the shouting and hand-clapping?

[Carolina]

I don't understand your comment. Are you saying we shouldn't applaud Cardinal Arinze's instructions on liturgical dance?

Or are you saying he's ignorant of African dance and its role in liturgy? What was the point about sex? And what do you mean about all Catholics gone Protestant?

[muawiyah]

Did they do that on Saturday afternoon?

You can find the schedule for the church down the street at: http://www.stbernpar.org/

Most Catholics I know attend SATURDAY and avoid the Sunday situation as best they can.

And this crowd is pretty conservative.

[Deo volente]

re: liturgical dancing
Cardinal Mahony thinks it's just swell!

[muawiyah]

You really have to learn how to read allegorically. Until then I will therefore 'splain it for you.

Some Protestant groups are renowned for avoiding dance, both at church (Heaven forbid) and in private! These are the guys who really do sit on the floor when the music plays. BTW, many of them disagree with the idea of having musical instruments in church ~ too distracting, interferes with prayerful introspection, not truly a spiritual sort of thing, etc. To a degree they comprise the same group who objected to drums on stage at the Grand Ol' Opry. (You are not alone, although your allies would probably never enter an RC church even on a dare).

I've simply noticed that in our threads involving dance and church we are getting a preponderance of RCs giving the sort of comments I would usually expect out of the most conservative of Protestant groups.

Maybe what's going on is you have a group in the hierarchy who are pushing dance even in the face of no apparant demand for it.

The former Coca Cola executives who pushed "New Coke" could probably give us some insight into that error.

[starfish923]

If you have ever had to sit through liturgical dance, you would agree 100% with the Cardinal. It is distracting, the costumes are often inappropriate, and it does nothing to enhance one's thoughts of God. Instead, your thoughts are "Why is that woman wearing that too-tight top?" or "This looks like 'One Grecian Urn" from 'The Music Man'" or "When will this be over?"
I also find skits, clowns, and folk-music masses to be inappropriate. I am a Catholic convert and suffered through many "performances" in Protestant worship services, and they are simply entertainment.
I support the Cardinal, and am glad to hear that someone is speaking out about it. My sister's parish had a FLAMENCO MASS. Can you imagine that, with all of the shouting and hand-clapping?

For a couple of years our parish had a half dozen prepubescent girls go up to the communion rail area, dressed to the nines, spread themselves across the front of the church and be the "sign language" singers for a couple of songs.

I felt the same way about that as I do about all this other liturgical invention.

[mrs. a]

I said it before and I'll say it again...liturgical dance is neither!

[Miss Marple]

Pentecostals think dance is sinful. That is not my point, nor my opinion.

I think dance is inappropriate for the Mass. It is distracting, as would be jokes, mimes, acrobats, performing monkeys, or hurdy-gurdy music.

These things are not sinful, but they are not reverent.

[Carolina]

To a degree they comprise the same group who objected to drums on stage at the Grand Ol' Opry. (You are not alone, although your allies would probably never enter an RC church even on a dare).

Huh? Something got lost in the translation.

[NYer]

I also find skits, clowns, and folk-music masses to be inappropriate.

Don't forget those Flamenco Masses!

[NYer]

For a couple of years our parish had a half dozen prepubescent girls go up to the communion rail area, dressed to the nines, spread themselves across the front of the church and be the "sign language" singers for a couple of songs.

Has it stopped? If not, you may contact Cardinal Arinze. He is keeping tabs on these abuses.

[Straight Vermonter]

Oh c'mon what do you have against the hurdy gurdy?!?!

j/k

[rogator]

" Cardinal Mahony thinks it's just swell!"

He is a disgrace.
I feel very sorry for those in his diocese.

[AnAmericanMother]

Now nothing is wrong with a hurdy-gurdy . . . (I mean a real one, not an street organ as in organ-grinder's monkey.) It's a stringed instrument with a waxed wheel that vibrates the strings when you turn a handle.

It's actually very useful in church when you need a drone line. An Advent Processional setting of "O Come O Come Emmanuel" that we did in our old (ECUSA) parish actually calls for a hurdy-gurdy (as well as finger cymbals, handbells, and a bodhran). My husband played the hurdy-gurdy.

It actually sounded neat (very medieval) and was perfectly respectful.

[Miss Marple]

I am unfamiliar with the instrument you are describing. I was, of course, referring to the organ-grinder's instrument. (Needless to say, I am not a musician.)

[AnAmericanMother]

Liturgical dance is a favorite pet peeve of mine. I'm a sometime folk dancer (former competitive dancer) and daughter of a professional contemporary dancer and choreographer.

I know what dancers are supposed to look like, and these "liturgical dancers" aren't it!

The problem with these folks is that they could never get a real gig. They not only aren't good enough, they aren't even within shouting distance of good. So they go to church and inflict their horrible travesties on folks there . . . mostly because the sillies who let them do it don't know anything about dance.

Of course, it's also not appropriate for Mass . . . but the icing on the cake for me is that it would be awful wherever it happened to be.

[AnAmericanMother]

Here's a diagram!

Some of them look like little lutes . . . others are just a box shape with strings inside.

The one my husband played at church is the box type. Believe our choirmaster made it from a kit.

Here is some music, a 15th century Italian dance, with a hurdy-gurdy providing the steady background buzzing note . . . pretty typical! (It does keep everybody on pitch.)