> If DieHard is Aussie, that might explain a lot of the difference and perceived difference.
(Big grin) It's OK -- lots of people make that mistake. I'm a Kiwi. My Mom & Dad are Canadian.
> I don't think DieHard will have any problem with this being publically posted.
Nope. No problem at all: this is a great thread and a topic worthy of spirited debate. What say you?
> 2. I have looked for/at solid males, good fathers in families most of my 60 years of life--well before I became a psychologist. I suppose it depends on one's definition. I've been very disappointed to see the relatively low percentage of what I'd call solid, good fathers with secure identities etc.
May I venture a good explanation for this? Few solid, good fathers with secure identities are likely to seek the aid and company of a psychologist? They're more likely to be taking their son to Aikido class, or to be watching the Rugby, or even hoisting one-or-three down at the Pub with their mates while the kids are doing piano lessons.
> 7. They routinely provoked their children to wrath from an early age. They rarely had time for relationships escaping into overwork chronically. Their wives felt and were largely deserted to fend for themselves and manage the kids. The lavish money and comforts available didn't seem to help much at all.
Most of the Lads I know see it this way: your kids give you one opportunity -- just one -- to share in the wonderful gift that is their childhood. You either take them up on that offer, or you don't. They will grow up regardless. You will either be in for a wonderful time full of magic and mystery and plenty of laughs, or you will miss out. Most of us, given the choice, try to opt in for the wonderful time.
I'm not saying there aren't plenty of men who are lousy fathers: there are. I am saying that it is a huge stretch to confidently assert that most men have forgotten how to be men and are just merely males be default.
*DieHard*
Thanks. I think ALL the Kiwi's I've met overseas were rather mellow blokes. Not passive mellow, just not all fussed up about petty stuff.
I think you under rated my assertion that in my guesstimation 60-85% of the men I've observed in a variety of churches across a large geography have been greatly lacking in the traits . . . quite as Dr Laura describes. I could say the same thing about any other collection of men in groups above say a dozen or 3.
I do think from all I've seen, had contact with, read . . . that there MAY be SOME above average healthiness to the population of NZ from a number of perspectives. But you sure have your percentage of crazies, too. It just may be a considerably smaller percentage though that's not certain--according to my dear Christian brother I email with a lot there.
In most even better churches . . . I've had to think hard to think of men who'd persistently give up work time for kids and ball time. It's been dreadfully sad for me to see.