Be careful. A few won't like this. But I don't care.
I'm just saying be careful. Don't allow yourself to be pulled in. :)
Posted on 09/05/2006 2:24:04 PM PDT by Terriergal
Be careful. A few won't like this. But I don't care.
I'm just saying be careful. Don't allow yourself to be pulled in. :)
Specifically, the Delphi Technique. As soon as I told my former pastor that I recognized it, I was out.
There is an underlying problem.
All orthodox Christians - Catholic, Orthodox, Evangelical, Reformed - technically believe in the Trinity and salvation by grace.
All recite creeds or uphold confessions that articulate these basic truths.
However, most believers - Catholic, Orthodox, Evangelical, Reformed - act as if believing in the Trinity doesn't really matter, and that behaving like a nice person most of the time means that you're going to heaven.
It's soft apostasy - it's much easier to just never think about or mention the Trinity than to actively and consciously reject the doctrine.
The Warren movement's main goal is simple: keep yourself busy doing five things, don't worry about all this confusing doctrine stuff, and you'll feel good and you'll go to heaven.
And the best part is that he has reduced these five things to a simple system of checklists and processes.
There is no need to think deeply: "How does God want me to evangelize?" Purpose will give you a counselor with a readymade short list of easy-to-do things that won't put you through any serious inconvenience or embarrassment.
Pain-free spiritual dieting.
Mr. Warren preaches in sandals and a Hawaiian shirt, and he encourages ministers to banish church traditions such as hymns, choirs and pews. He and his followers use "praise team" singers, backed by rock bands playing contemporary Christian songs. His sermons rarely linger on self-denial and fighting sin, instead focusing on healing modern American angst, such as troubled marriages and stress.with this (copypasted from kuyper.org):
is the siege of Leyden, more than three hundred years ago." (speech originally given in 1898.) "... Leyden, defended almost exclusively by its own citizens, entered the lists against the best troops of what was looked upon at that time as the finest army of the world. Three months after the commencement of the siege, the supply of food became exhausted. A fearful famine began to rage. ... This black famine was soon followed by the black death or the plague, which carried off a third part of the inhabitants. The Spaniards offered peace and pardon to the dying people; but Leyden, remembering the bad faith of the enemy in the treatment of Naarden and Haarlem, answered boldly and with pride: If it is necessary, we are ready to consume our left arms, and to defend with our right arms our wives, our liberty and our religion against thee, O tyrant. Thus they persevered. They patiently waited for the coming of the Prince of Orange to raise the siege, . . . but . ., the prince had to wait for God. ... God tried his people sorely. At last however, on the first of October, the wind turned towards the West, and, forcing the waters upward, enabled the fleet to reach the beleaguered city. Then the Spaniards fled in haste to escape the rising tide. On the 3rd of October the fleet entered the port of Leyden, and the siege being raised, Holland and Europe were savedThe population, all but starved to death, could scarcely drag themselves along, yet all to a man limped as well as they could to the house of prayer. There all fell on their knees and gave thanks to God. But when they tried to utter their gratitude in psalms of praise, they were almost voiceless, for there was no strength left in them, and the tones of their song died away in grateful sobbing and weeping.
Hawaiian shirts, flip flops, artless electrified bands and sermons about stress are for happy times or (as seems to me more likely) blisfully-oblivious-of-the-coming-struggle times.
It's when Warren says stuff along the lines of: "This is about God and what God wants. Not about you and your personal desires."
Great. Sounds strong, focused and orthodox.
Then a few sentences later he will segue like this: "What God wants is for you to fulfill his purpose for you. And He is telling you that these things x and y that make you happy are what He wants for you."
So we go from verbally ruling out the wrong assumptions, assuaging the conscience, to then proceeding from all the wrong assumptions just like we said we wouldn't.
Most people no longer have the attention span to notice the rhetorical drift.
Like all PCUSA churches, we affirm the Westminster Catechism, but I think many of the congregation would be surprised to read what the Westminster actually says. More's the pity.
My copy of the WCF is actually the PCUSA Book of Confessions. One of these days I'll get around to reading it (sorry to sound callous, but I wasn't raised right, and these days I just don't have time.) In addition to the good stuff, they also stuck in the Barmen Declaration (why???) and the Confession of 1967 (my recollection of that is that it trys to actually confess as little as possible).
For years ours was a traditional, conservative Presbyterian church, and we found God's word righteously preached there.Our minister left last year and the new one is bringing Warren with him.
Sounnds like the search committee should have looked a little longer.
Thus we're looking for a PCA or OPC
Good luck. I think they both have church finders on the denominational websites.
"We're looking into the PCA or OPC."
_________________________
FWIW dept., we Baptist's would love to have a Bible believing Christian family join us.
I don't know if attention span is the problem. People love to be told what they want to hear, and Warren is good at that.
"...or are many people just showing up to play church and be entertained?"
__________________________
Unfortunately, in my limited experience this is true. I have a friend who has decided to make church a bigger part of his life and decided to become a Roman Catholic. I explained some of the differences Baptists have with Roman Catholics and his response was "it doesn't matter". The driving force in his decision making was the book by Warren "A Purpose Driven Life".
While this statement may seems to make some sense, it becomes just a cold hearted statement when you realize the only ones experiencing loss and pain are those who were purposely driven from their church.
I think you are misunderstanding this quote. Pastors view things in terms of yearly budgets and givers for the sake of planning. So if a group of 150 people leave and they only accounted for $15K of giving for the previous year, no big deal. But if those 150 people accounted for $150K of the probably $1.5M or so budget (just estimating based upon the size of that church), then it's a big deal. I think the point was that the pastor stayed the course of his vision (or Rick Warren's) for the church despite the financial hardship that it caused for the church in the short-term.
Not everything is pernicious. Even when it comes from the mouth of a big-time modern-day media mogul/pastor.
I'm glad to see you have found your purpose! < ducking for cover>
For your consideration, The Presbyterian Church In America Directory.
...and probably legally actionable.
Tommy, Tommy, dear fellow. The LAST thing you want to do when attempting to defeat DELPHI/DIAPRAX is to let them know you're on to them. While it's true that you let them know at a time of YOUR choosing, there are proven tactics to defeat that satanic system.
Scottish Presbyterianism runs in my veins, William, but your kind invitation is certainly something to consider. 8~)
Sadly, I think they found just who they wanted.
Confession of 1967 (my recollection of that is that it trys to actually confess as little as possible
LOL. Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer the language of the Westminster Confession of Faith of 1646. 8~)
Thanks, GC. We'll check them out.
Your post is my most favorite on the whole thread. Many thanks, and Praise to the Lord of Hosts!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.