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To: Redleg Duke; Gerard.P; murphE
The Roman Catholic Church doesn't like the fact that Freemasonry doesn't insist on each member being active in the Roman Catholic Church.

Huh?
It would be helpful to see anything connecting this assertion with fact. No Catholic is allowed to be a Freemason, under direct threat of excommunication. Period. There are reasons for this including Masonic secret oaths and various beliefs that put the organization at odds with the Catholic religion and teachings.
That is fact, not some paronoia about "all Freemasons must be Catholic."
Oh, and the Catholic faith doesn't require Rotarians to be Roman Catholic either, or Chamber of Commerce members or Garden Club participants, or Kiwanians, etc., etc. yet none of those groups are forbidden.

101 posted on 09/11/2006 9:17:31 AM PDT by vox_freedom (Matthew 5:37 But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no)
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To: vox_freedom

He's partially correct.

The Freemasons (since joining with the KT) have been pretty-much non-denominational Christians, and (having been so badly mistreated by the King of France) tended to rail against corruption in government and Church, which put them at odds with those who believe that one must be a Roman-Catholic-or-you're-not-a-Christian (a position with which St. Paul would disagree).


110 posted on 09/11/2006 9:36:58 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Lezahal)
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To: vox_freedom
None of the fraternal organizations existed, except the Masons, when Pope Clement XII's Papal Bull against the Masons was issued in 1737. It was a political, not a religious move. This was the first anti-Masonic stance made by the Catholic church; however, it wasn't the first time someone had decided that their subjects not be allowed to be masons. That "honor" is due Louis XV of France, in 1736. OTOH, when Pope Clement XII sent out that first Bull, King Louis XV, as usual, went against the Pope, whom he had for decades seen the Pope as an Gallacian and NOT worth listening to, since he saw himself as THE most "Christian King" and not the vassal of someone unworthy of being Pope.

At the time period we're talking about, Catholic and Protestant Europe had been waging both literal and verbal war with each other, for centuries. Alliances and wars and even which Prince got elected ( yes, ELECTED !) to be THE HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR. The Papal Bull of 1738 had far more to do with Maria Theresia being a girl and thus incapable of being crowned the Holy Roman Emperor, than the spurious garbage about Masons supposedly being against the Catholic church. I suggest that you read up on European history. I have neither the time nor inclination to spend the rest of this evening explaining to you why the first and subsequent Papal Bulls are spurious libel. I will give you a book list, though, should you so desire to become educated on this topic.

169 posted on 09/11/2006 4:31:48 PM PDT by nopardons
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