Posted on 11/16/2006 7:00:00 AM PST by Alex Murphy
Syria's state-controlled media is lavishingly boasting that California mega-church pastor Rick Warren, during his visit in Damascus, has endorsed the Syrian pespective on the Middle East. Not only that; Warren has reportedly promised to carry that state sponsor of terrorism's propaganda message back to the U.S.
Warren, pastor of the 30,000 member Saddleback Church and author of the best-selling The Purpose-Driven Life (over 30 million copies sold), is increasingly drifting in a Religious Left direction.
The Syrian newspaper Umar Jaftali, which like all Syrian media is tightly manipulated by the Baathist dictatorship, editorialized on November 14:
Pastor Rick Warren, who yesterday met with [Syrian] President Al-Assad and Foreign Minister Al-Mu'allim, said: "Washington is wrong not to hold dialogue with Syria, which wants peace. I call on the Americans to visit Syria and meet its beautiful people. I will tell the Americans that their idea about Syria does not reflect the truth." This is what the American clergyman said after seeing the facts on the ground. It was not in his interest not to say the truth about what he himself and the accompanying Protestant delegation saw and felt.
The supposed quote from Warren reads like a news release from Assad's propaganda ministry. Perhaps, the translation into Arabic and back into English does not do Warren justice. We can hope. But the official Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA) provided four reports about the Warren visit. According to SANA, Warren's "American delegation stressed that the American administration is mistaken not to hold dialogue with Syria." Even more eggregiously, "Pastor Warren hailed the religious coexistence, tolerance and stability that the Syrian society is enjoying due to the wise leadership of President al-Assad, asserting that he will convey the true image about Syria to the American people." Apparently, Warren gifted the Syrian dictator with a "memorial drawing" to "thank the Syrian people for their...efforts exerted for maintaining peace and harmony." Needless to note, there was no mention by the Warren delegation, at least not as mentioned by SANA, about Syria's one-party police state, its political prisoners, its chambers of torture, its support for Hezballah terrorism in Lebanon, and its continued devotion to the destruction of Israel. Another SANA report told of Warren's seemingly equally breathless visit with Syria's Baathist Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallim, with whom he "reviewed Syrian-American relations."
Apparently Warren afterwards gave SANA a written statement in which he told SANA exactly what it wanted to hear: "Syria wants peace, and Muslims and Christians live in this country jointly and peacefully since more than a thousand years, and this is not new for Syria," which is an example he urged that others should follow. Warren assured SANA that, in SANA's words, he would "tell the Americans that the ideas which had been shaped about [Syria] didn't reflect the truth and they have to come to Syria and see by themselves and realize her nice people and visit her wonderful and historical ruins." Apparently making the grand circuit of Damascus, Warren also pow-wowed with Syria's Islamic Grand Mufti, about which SANA also generously reported. According to SANA, Warren said, in SANA's words, that there is "no peace in the region without Syria, noting that 80 percent of the American people rejected what the U.S. administration is doing in Iraq and considered the U.S. policy in the Mideast as wrong." Warren went on to share his "admiration" for Syria and its admirable "co-existence" between Christians and Syria. The Grand Mufti urged Warren to share with the American people the "real" story about Syria, whose image has been "distorted" by the Bush administration. Reportedly, at least according to SANA, Warren obligingly promised to do just that.
In contrast to the lovefest between Warren and Syrian officials reported by SANA, human rights organizations portray a different "real story" about Syria. This story tells of a nation where only the ruling Baathist Party and its allies are permitted to win elections, where all news media are owned or controlled by the government, where indepedent labor unions are prohibited, where universities must proclaim Baathist Party policies, where clerics are appointed by the government, where the president by law must be Muslim, and where women's limited rights are governed by Islamic Shari'a law, even though the government is ostensibly secular. Ten percent of Syria's population is Christian, having diminished greatly in recent decades. Compared to Saudi Arabia, where conversion away from Islam is punishable by death, Syria is tolerant. But Syria's constitution stipulates that Islam is the "main source for legislation." Christians cannot preach to non-Christians, and churches, like mosques, are tightly regulated by the government. No construction of a new Christian school has been permitted in 40 years, and all schools by law must have Muslim principals. Will Warren share this news about Syria with America? Next year, Warren is scheduled to visit North Korea at the invitation of its despotic Communist regime. It is reasonable to assume that the North Korean state-controlled media will issue reports about Warren's visit there that are remarkably similar to the Syria's dictatorship's boastful coverage of Warren's chit-chat with them. It is sad story, repeated often. Big-name U.S. preachers, often otherwise sensible and orthodox in their faith, visit despotic regimes and naively curry favor with police state thugs. The preachers supinely believe that their cozy ties with the dictatorship will facilitate greater preaching access to the oppressed populations. But the end result more usually is a propaganda bonanza for the tyrants, and a population that is left to feel forgotten by the outside world. Fortunately, the Deity whom these preachers proclaim, whatever the failures of His ostensible messengers, has not forgotten the imprisoned and the persecuted. For the oppressed He will contend, even while the celebrity preachers attend to the public relations considerations of the oppressors.
I've never done a YouTube link. I hope it works the same way as other links.
Is anyone really surprised! Oops...I guess some Warren supporters will be.
Yeah, how can there be peace without a nation that arms Islamic terrorist orgs?
What a shame.
We don't know when the Lord will return, but some days it seems closer than others.
I've never done a YouTube link. I hope it works the same way as other links.
Did you put that video on YouTube, or was it someone else? The reason I ask, is because it was removed.
I didn't put it on YouTube. It was put on and then removed by Warren's church because they wanted to get rid of the evidence that Warren is a doofus.
I was terribly interested to find your entry. Two days ago, I happened to be at dinner with the group that was on that Syria trip. All Great Christian men that I know well.
Some stuff you might be interested in having cleared:
Pastor Rick was in no way mistraslated; what they said is what he meant.
Their information was not gathered from the "dictatorship:" on the contrary, they were specifically asked by the President NOT to take his word for it, but to roam around Damascus (yes, it is safe for an American to wander the city unescorted), drive to remote villiages 'round Damascus, and ask random citizens what their opinions were. And they did.
Guess what every random citizen told him? Every one?
"YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO BY THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. We are happy to live here and worship with Christians and Jews. We do, and always have, gladly worshipped with Christians and Jews. We are very happy with our president; the things you hear in America are badly warped propaganda."
And that is what Mr. Warren speaks from. He ferreted out the opinion of "a population that is left to feel forgotten by the outside world," as you call them. He was there; he came he saw, he wandered, partied and conversed with the locals.
If one of us goes to Syria, we'll see for ouselves who's telling the truth. In the meantime, I think it'd make sense to take Warren's word for it. Logically: he has nothing to gain from saying what he does, and he's been right about everything else he's said....
I dunno, though. I'm just a kid who sat in at a dinner.
But It looks to me like we've been lied to about Syria.
video gone. Pastor - Mullah Rick must have been embarrassed by something.
No kidding! And it's his/her first and only post, too!
King_Toe
Since Dec 4, 2006
If it were an article, it'd be a ZOT. The Iraqis loved Saddam Hussein while they were under his thumb etc.
But Rick himself has said, when asked "if he could respond specifically to the words put in his mouth by the Syrian news agency", Rick Warren's reply was - and I quote - "I hope you'll not choose to believe Syrian propaganda"...
This is Warren's "Dixie Chicks" moment. I will be surprised if he has 15,000 church members by this time next year. His Church is smack dab in the middle of the most Conservative Republican Stronghold in California (I know that isn't saying much).
For those who prefer "Mega Churches" I'm sure there are dozens of large churches in Southern California who have pastors who aren't quite as naive or as downright stupid as Rick Warren.
Unfortunately I agree. I'm sorry for Rick Warren. I think this is a "melt down" moment for him.
To be blunt I think this is exactly what happens when people carry "love" to such an extreme. It's like our conversation on the other thread with people believing its our Christian duty to love Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Syrian terrorists, serial killers, homosexual ministers, fruit flies, you name it. And to think that God loves them. We invent and rationalize things to such a degree that theology suffers. Throw theology out the door and just give everyone a hug. Doctrinal error upon doctrinal error is created and compounded all in the name of this humanistic "love" cycle; ignoring the wrath of God that awaits.
OK, my ranting is done.
We have been commanded to 1) Love our enemies and 2) Be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect.
I think it therefore follows that God loves our enemies. He also hates sin and demands justice for sin. The problem with people like Warren is that he pretends to love his enemies by praising and excusing their sin, by praising governments that persecute Christians and by extolling the virtues of false religion, and nobody who truly loves someone would lead them down the path to destruction, which is what Warren and liberal churches do.
If we love our enemies we will not pat them on the back as they slide down the razor blade of life to destruction, we will preach the gospel to them, we will challenge their faulty beliefs, we will point out the errors of their ways and seek to draw them to the Kingdom of God.
Anyone who, for instance, claims to love homosexuals, will not excuse their sin but will condemn it in no uncertain terms and call that person to repentance.
OK, my ranting is done.
Paul Proctor's editorial this week pretty much caps my whole thinking on this Syria / Obama mess. But before I get to that, here's a couple of posts I made over a year ago, that speak to my entire problem with Warren et al:
"What I'd like to know (and I believe it ties in with your posts) is this: does Rick Warren have a "sweeping P.E.A.C.E. plan to defeat poverty" from among the 20,000-40,000 members of Saddleback Church attendees? I see individual ministries named on the Saddleback website. But I don't see the sweeping statements and promises regarding defeating poverty from Saddleback that I'm seeing regarding his Rwanda efforts.10/10/05
The biggest gripe I have with Warren is the out-of-context scripture citations in PDL. Which only leads to an uncomfortable question....And now for that Paul Proctor editorial....If there are better in-context verses that could illustrate the same points, why didn't Warren use them in his book? IMO the only acceptable answer is this: Warren isn't as biblically literate as we'd like to think he is.
....if Warren is as blonde regarding Scripture and theology as his books appear to be, I can easily believe that he'd do something as spiritually ignorant as hire Ken Blanchard to shape PDL leadership training programs. It's that approach - the seeking out of unbiblical "experts" to shape the church's next generation of leaders - that IMO makes the movement heretical, or at least opens the door for his hirelings to sow heretical seeds in his name. And Warren, being the shallow illiterate pastor that he is, appears perfectly willing to put his name behind it.
....If there was "deeper" meaning and material for new converts, I'd think Warren would use the profits from PDL to publish it, or at least promote it. From what I've seen in his books and on Saddleback's website, I don't Warren has any idea how to transition a milk drinker into a meat eater. Frankly, I expect more of a pastor than that.
------------
WHAT RICK WARREN WANTS
By Paul Proctor
December 4, 2006
NewsWithViews.com
I'd like to thank Joseph Farah for filling in for me these last few weeks to cover, in my absence, the latest Rick Warren escapades, with his riveting series of commentaries and reports over at WorldNetDaily. After writing about the Purpose Driven pastor myself in numerous articles for NewsWithViews.com and trying as best I could to warn the infatuated flock of his wily ways since near the turn of the century, I really needed a break. (Kidding)
Seriously, it has been both fascinating and strangely entertaining to witness the ongoing exchange between WND's premier pundit and Saddleback's pragmatic pastor over the clergyman's calamitous "courtesy call" on Syria - mainly because Warren's wink and wiggle tactics are so predictable, they're almost comical. It's like watching George Costanza on reruns of Seinfeld. You know what he's going to do because you've seen it all before. And with his fake humility, egocentric nature and penchant for duplicity and doubletalk, you can't wait to see him pay the price for his shameless and self-absorbed behavior. So, when he finally does EXACTLY what you knew he was going to do - and it blows up in his face - you just want to laugh. And I probably would if the subject wasn't Warren, the stakes weren't so high and we weren't talking about real sin.
In his Tuesday, November 28th column, the sixth in a blistering barrage, critical of Warren, Joe Farah had some less than cordial things to say about the Saddleback padre's Purpose Driven powwow with the leader of a terrorist nation:
"Let's be clear about what Rick Warren did and why he is being criticized.But you see, what Warren was doing in Syria is what he's been doing all along here in America and around the world with the dialectic church - withholding inconvenient truths about sin and the call to repentance for the sake of Results and Relationships. Going soft on sinners is his specialty! That's how you "build bridges," exponentially grow churches and dialectically achieve "unity in diversity" - by putting absolutes aside and dialoguing differences away until everyone's conscience is seared and conviction vanishes in the ambiguity of religious relativism.It's not because he met with Syrian President Bashar Assad. In fact, I would encourage any Christian leader who can get in Assad's face to do so. He needs to be called to account for keeping Christians in Syria in a state of "dhimmi" status. He needs to be called to account for murdering Christian political leaders like Pierre Gemayel. He needs to be called to account for his continued repression of his own people as well as those of Lebanon. He needs to be called to account for his support for the terrorist organization Hezbollah. He needs to be called to account for allowing his country to play host to more terrorist organizations than any other country in the world.
So, I did not criticize him for meeting with Assad. I criticized him for playing footsie with the dictator, for giving him cover to continue his atrocities against believers and non-believers alike, for lying to the world about the state of the church in Syria and for not even mentioning Assad's bellicose threats to the very existence of the state of Israel."
The facilitators of the church growth movement have always played "footsie" with reprobates - given "cover" to evil - "lied to the world about the state of the church" and overlooked "bellicose threats" against resisters.
What makes the controversial megapastor so predictable is the dialectic template from which he operates. It's not that hard to recognize once you understand what it is, how it works and what it achieves. Unfortunately, he has used this template to maneuver his mesmerized minions into believing his teachings and practices are all scriptural, when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. It might seem practical to fellowship with evil and overlook wickedness and rebellion for the sake of progress and unity (Results & Relationships) but the fruit of such friendship is always rotten - and only the ignorant and arrogant are foolish enough to believe they aren't adversely affected by abhorrent affiliations.
"Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned? Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned?" - Proverbs 7:27-28
Those in the Christian community with little or no discernment or regard for Biblical absolutes see Warren as brilliant; and because the church at large long ago acquired a taste for men of "smooth words," he was generously rewarded with record-breaking book sales and empowered with celebrity status, though few outside the dialectic church actually knew of the man. For those that did, he was just another pop preacher - but not to me. It was only a matter of time before Warren's "whatever it takes" philosophy would steer him toward the political arena and on to the Middle East where someone like Joe Farah would be watching.
Like the dialectic church, the dialectic government would also see Warren as brilliant, offering him the world stage on which to present his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan - a pulpit usually reserved for high-powered politicians, corporate heads, world leaders and wealthy elites who, by and large, have long been considered the enemies of Christ. And frankly, addressing them would be perfectly fine for any pastor, except that Warren didn't take that stage to proclaim the Gospel of repentance and faith as men of God are called to do - he went to sell his P.E.A.C.E. Plan - and when he started "playing footsie" with President Bashar Assad in Syria, rather than calling on him to repent for his atrocities, those with a working knowledge and understanding of world affairs, like Farah, quickly identified him as an "imposter."
As we've alluded to already, "playing footsie" with evil didn't begin for Warren in Syria, nor did it end there. Shortly after the Assad incident, he hosted an AIDS conference at his church, inviting an array of "progressive" speakers that included a pro-abortion Senator and a gay physician - point being - this is just business as usual. "Playing footsie" with evil is what being Purpose Driven is all about!
Think of it as the dialectic church's No Guile Left Behind program.
But it wasn't Warren's creation - he just gave it a new name. Before it was called "Purpose Driven" it was called "seeker-sensitive." That's back when pastor Bill Hybels was at the forefront inviting scoundrels like then president Bill Clinton to speak at his Leadership Summit held annually at Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois. This was during a time when water cooler conversation included Oval Office jokes about cigars and semen-stained dresses.
In March of 2001, The Chicago Daily Herald reported that a forum was held at Willow Creek for the world's five largest religions in an article entitled: Forum Unites Diverse Religions, where the church's spokesman, David Staal, was quoted as saying "All pathways to heaven and God are not the same; that's the reality." The Herald went on to say that "organizers of the forum preached respect between the faiths" and "encouraged the representatives of Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Judaism to revel in their diversity" - not exactly a concept you'd find in the Old or New Testament.
It is also worth noting that shortly after September 11th, Pastor Hybels invited a Muslim cleric, Fisal Hammouda, who had addressed that earlier forum, to return to Willow Creek where Religion Today said he explained how "the Koran does not allow violence against innocent people." In an October 17th, 2001 summary piece, entitled: "Willow Creek Church Welcomes Muslim Cleric's Perspective," Hammouda was quoted as telling the crowd of 17,000, which was spread out over four services, that they (Muslims) "believe in Jesus, more than you do."
But the dialectic church was not Hybels' creation either. Before him, it was Robert Schuller and his Self Esteem Reformation. And the list goes on. Like socialism, which is essentially what we're talking about, they just keep reintroducing it under a fresh moniker and marketing campaign to make everyone think it's the latest, greatest thing - taking the church further and further left with each new version. And when Rick Warren's star eventually fades, like Bill Hybels' and Robert Schuller's, another will surely rise to take his place.
Already Christianity Today is reporting that, according to Jon Walker, Saddleback's pastor of strategic communications, "Purpose Driven as an organization, in a sense, doesn't really exist anymore," having already reduced its staff by a third, signaling that it's time for the next rage. Obviously, Warren would like to believe his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan is just that, providing him an opportunity to shine a little longer.
So, what does Rick Warren want?
Well, we found out in his apology to Farah - comments that were made public in Joe's 7th column of the series, entitled: "Rick Warren says he's sorry." In it, the People's Pastor was quoted as saying this:
"It is evident from your columns and e-mails to others that I hurt, angered and offended you personally by what I said in a second e-mail to you. I am truly sorry, and I humbly ask for your forgiveness.You see, the good reverend wasn't the least bit concerned that he had sided with an evil dictator and advanced the lies and agenda of a terrorist nation. All that apparently troubled him was that his Relationship with World Net Daily's editor was not producing satisfactory Results; and after failing to fool his latest critic with bogus denials that only made him look worse, he decided it was time to reach for the artificial sweetener to try and get the bad taste out of everyone's mouth. Unfortunately, artificial sweeteners have a sickening aftertaste all their own - so needless to say, the Relationship continued to sour.I am commanded by God to 'Show respect for everyone. Love your Christian brothers and sisters. Fear God. Show respect for the king.' 1 Peter 2:17 (Peter wrote this when Nero was emperor)
My response was disrespectful. I'm sorry. I want God's continued blessing on my life more than anything. Rick"
Any time you question or challenge today's dialectically trained pastors and church growth leaders regarding their scripturally errant words and ways, they invariably try and turn it into a Relationship issue to avoid facing the truth and consequences.
This is a tactic that most in the church today are unprepared to deal with. The average Christian doesn't even know such a thing exists. Having been taught by their PDL pastors to feel and experience each other's emotions and "think relationally," (play footsie) rather than know and obey God's absolutes, they are seduced and sidetracked into surrendering their conscience to the collective for the brotherly benefits of progress and peace. (Results & Relationships)
This is how you bring conflicting governments, economies and religions together to build a new world order and a one world religion - by persuading extremely diverse people groups from all sectors of society to put aside their differences, find common ground and exchange eternal truths for pragmatic promises and relativistic reasoning.
The last sentence of Warren's apology to Farah clearly reveals what is most sacred to him.
What he said he wants "more than anything" is "God's continued blessing on my life;" and I submit to you that this may well be his single greatest weakness and failing as a pastor and a Christian - and where Satan seems to have a hold on him - coveting Results and Relationships - the two things his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan promises to produce in unprecedented proportions.
The Greatest Commandment does not read: "Thou shalt love the Lord's blessing with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."
It reads: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." - Matthew 22:37
And Jesus repeatedly defined "love" as obedience to His Word - something Warren seems intent on bastardizing for his own Purpose and P.E.A.C.E. Plan.
But, if we love the blessing more than the Blesser, and that "blessing," for whatever reason, is taken away, our misplaced faith would be found as false as the angel of light we were serving all along.
"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him…"- Job 13:15a
Before loving our enemies, we are to love God first. He also requires that we do justice. If you understand this then Elijah hacking to death the priests of Baal makes a tad bit more sense. Otherwise our Christian military men and women are in the wrong profession.
You do not have to hate the people you are shooting. You need only understand that governments are ordained of God to carry out God's judgments and you are to follow orders and protect government property (which includes you).
We all fall short of God's command to love our enemies. But nonetheless it is a command.
Warren's problem is that he seems to love the spotlight more than he loves his enemies. If he loved his enemies, he would call upon them to follow Christ.
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