Posted on 12/11/2006 6:29:15 AM PST by xzins
What happened to Joseph the father of Jesus
We know very little about the years of Jesus prior to His public ministry. The gospels are without notation of any childhood events beyond Christ's birth except one reference that is found in Luke. It is the very last time that Joseph, the adoptive father of Jesus, is ever mentioned.
Luke 2:41 reads: "Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, 'Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.' 'Why were you searching for me?' he asked. 'Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?' But they did not understand what he was saying to them. Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."
It is supposed that Joseph, the father of Jesus, died during the quiet years of Jesus' life. We do know that he trained Jesus in his trade, as that of a carpenter. He do know that Joseph and Mary had children after Jesus was born: James, Joses, Simon, and others.
Perhaps the cause or timing of his death is not nearly as important as the strength of character he displayed. In first hearing about Mary's pregnancy, Joseph did not want to subject Mary to public scorn. After hearing from the angel who confirmed Mary's incredulous story, Joseph obediently accepted the role as surrogate father for the baby Jesus, the Christ child. Matthew 1:24-25 says, "When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."
The last reference about Joseph in Luke confirms that Joseph was a devout follower of the customs of his religion with his observance of Passover. It implies that Joseph made certain of good spiritual training for the children in his family. Joseph proved his integrity and willingness to be obedient to God's direction and guidance.
Fr. John Matusiak is no doubt correct about Orthodox belief, but not quite correct about what Catholics believe.
(1) We do not believe you can be "guilty" of something you didn't do. We do not believe, therefore, that we are born "guilty" of Original Sin, but that we all suffer from the consequences of it because of the damaged human nature we inherited from our First Parents, Adam and Eve.
(2) We believe Mary was a human being with free will, and therefore could have chosen to sin: but she didn't choose to.
So unless I am mistaken, Catholic and Orthodox belief are essentially the same.
As far as the Catholic understanding of the doctrine I defer to Catholic sources as to what Catholics beleive...
No it wouldn't. She WAS a virgin when when the Holy Spirit overshadowed her and she conceived Christ thus fulfilling prophecy. Her NOT remaining a virgin after His birth would have done NOTHING to hinder His work here.
Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
And second, it is what we offer with our hearts to the Lord, that finds acceptance,
Luke 21:1
And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
If that was all the prophecy said perhaps, however the entirety of the prophesy as to the confrontation between the 'seed of the woman' and satan is not contained simply in one verse about whether she'd be a virgin. The fullness of the prophecy can only be understood by examing a lot of the Old Testament.
Everything else written to support this is late and has no early sources in either Scripture or tradition of the apostles or tradition of the early Ante-Nicenes.
What were Jerome's sources in his debate with Helvidius: Did he have any or was he just quoting thin air?
You don't believe the written documents of the apostles but you leap at the chance to believe the spurious documents of those who disagree with the apostles. What's wrong with this picture?
What exactly does the Catholic Church teach about Mary that treats her, in your opinion, as "more than human"?
I don't know the answer to the question you posted, above, but if you pray to her, you must think Mary is 'more than human'.
I should have been more clear in my previous post.
The time to go to my home and family is near. I shall post again when I get the chance. Thanks for your heartfelt answers and for a pretty respectful debate. God bless.
Where in OT prophecy does it state that the mother of the Messiah would remain a virgin and never "know" her husband after His birth?
Did you even read the link I included in #291?
-A8
And the same to you.
-A8
In the end, I think that almost all these disagreements between Catholics and Protestants can be boiled down to views on sexual morality.(especially all these threads on Our Lady's Perpetual Virginity and such....) To me, my husband is a true man, full of strength and love, because he accepts and loves me completely. As a result of this love, at times. we don't express it physically because we love whole person, including their unencumbered fertility. It takes a real man to be able to love his wife so completely that he would deny himself his own gratification for her good, his good and the good of the whole family. And only such a man can teach his son how to be a man. St. Joseph was such a man.
Christians have beleived that the Saints intercede for us since the early church and as such asked the Saints to intercede for them. That is not the same as praying to God.
Further you will note that countless times words which do not mean pray or worship (such as venerate) are mistranslated into English to insinuate that in fact Catholic or Orthodox Christians worship or pray to Saints.
Of course, all you noted is necessary also. Necessary but insufficient.
Google The Didache and read what the Early Christians were doing in gathering on Sunday to offer the Sacrifice.
See especially Chapter fourteen
Not to say that the numbers provide irrefutable proof, but you'll have to admit that your position would seem at least "strange" to people who are well aware that the lady you're calling full of hereditary evils, is the same lady an Angel of God called "Full of Grace."
So, if it's not in a canonical book of Scripture, it isn't true?
What were Jerome's sources in his debate with Helvidius: Did he have any or was he just quoting thin air?
He said that Helvidius was being rash and was contradicting the ancient tradition of the Church. He also said that Helvidius was wrong in concluding that the word "brothers" in Scripture always meant blood brothers.
You don't believe the written documents of the apostles
Wrong. We do. It's you who keep insisting that they say that Mary had other children besides Jesus, when they clearly say no such thing. That's adding a human tradition to the written documents of the apostles.
Yes, I did. It referred to what Catholics and Protestants consider praying to be.
My original point was in response to your question.....in what way does the CC treat Mary as more than human.
James became the leader of the Church in Jerusalem and was evidently visited by Ignatius early in his training under John.
Here is mention of the descendants of Jude about half way down along with some more info on James. Notice that Judas is called a "brother according to the flesh."
The "ever virgin" status of Mary is actually laughable in the face of plain scripture.....as well as historical data. I realize that this questions your theology, but much of your non Biblical traditions do the same. I shake my head and chuckle at you Romans.
Thank you for the answer.
:-)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.