Posted on 12/11/2006 6:29:15 AM PST by xzins
What happened to Joseph the father of Jesus
We know very little about the years of Jesus prior to His public ministry. The gospels are without notation of any childhood events beyond Christ's birth except one reference that is found in Luke. It is the very last time that Joseph, the adoptive father of Jesus, is ever mentioned.
Luke 2:41 reads: "Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, 'Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.' 'Why were you searching for me?' he asked. 'Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?' But they did not understand what he was saying to them. Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."
It is supposed that Joseph, the father of Jesus, died during the quiet years of Jesus' life. We do know that he trained Jesus in his trade, as that of a carpenter. He do know that Joseph and Mary had children after Jesus was born: James, Joses, Simon, and others.
Perhaps the cause or timing of his death is not nearly as important as the strength of character he displayed. In first hearing about Mary's pregnancy, Joseph did not want to subject Mary to public scorn. After hearing from the angel who confirmed Mary's incredulous story, Joseph obediently accepted the role as surrogate father for the baby Jesus, the Christ child. Matthew 1:24-25 says, "When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."
The last reference about Joseph in Luke confirms that Joseph was a devout follower of the customs of his religion with his observance of Passover. It implies that Joseph made certain of good spiritual training for the children in his family. Joseph proved his integrity and willingness to be obedient to God's direction and guidance.
Genesis 18:4
Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
Genesis 19:2
And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night,
Genesis 19:7
And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Genesis 37:6
And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
Genesis 40:8
And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.
Genesis 45:4
And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you
Christians pray spiritual favors from others all the time. This is the meaning of intercessory prayer. It's in this sense of "asking" or "petitioning" --- and that alone --- that we address our fellow believers.
Catholics never offer anyone but God the adoration which is fitting for the Supreme Being alone. To say otherwise is a falsehood. It is bearing false witness against your neighbor.
No argument there!
This thread has deteriorated----as threads like this usually do.
I now realize it isn't worth my time--time being the precious thing that it is.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
[Matthew 10:2-4] These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. Two Simons, one Andrew, two James, one John, one Philip, one Bartholomew, one Thomas, one Matthew, one Thaddaeus, and one Judas. Twelve in all.
[Mark 3:16-19] These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter. James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder); Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. Two Simons, two James, one John, one Andrew, one Philip, one Bartholomew, one Matthew, one Thomas, one Thaddaeus, and one Judas. Twelve in all.
[Luke 6:12-19] One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor. Two Simons, one Andrew, two James, one John, one Philip, one Bartholomew, one Matthew, one Thomas, and two Judas???? because Thaddaeus was also known as Judas.
[Acts 1:13]When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. Count "Em"....eleven including Judas (Thaddaeus). He began using the name of Thaddaeus because of the notoriety of "Judas Iscariot".....who of course by this time was dead.
Now let's move to the brothers. [Matthew 13:53-57] When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked. "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" And they took offense at him. Now we have one more James(The brother of the Lord Galatians 1:19) one more Simon and one more Judas. Joseph was the only brother who did not have a namesake as an Apostle.
These same brothers were being rebuked by our Lord previously in Matthew 12:46-50. These brothers had called Our Lord crazy in Mark 3:21 and that was the reason for the rebuke as again stated in Mark 3:31-35. Mark also tells us of the experience with the home town crowd and their incredulity with this mere carpenter and his "uppityness" [Mark 6:2-3].
[Psalm 69:8-9] gives a prophecy about these brothers. I am a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my own mother's sons for zeal for your house consumes me, and the insults of those who insult you fall on me. His disciples later remembered this prophecy regarding the contempt his own brothers would have for him, [John 2:17]His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me.
John tells us these brothers hated Jesus to the point they wanted him dead [John 7:1-13]. They did not believe in him (verse 5). Let me ask you a question now. Do you think this sounds like camp followers, brothers in spirit, Apostles or disciples? No, they wanted him to go to the Feast so the Jews could have at him! Verse one says the Jews were laying for him already! They had already accused him publicly of being a maniac....remember? This animosity in the family is the reason Jesus gave the care of his mother to his cousin, John, at the crucifixion. He and his brothers were not on good terms.
As you will notice although, in Acts 1:14, it appears that the brothers have now started to think "Just who was this guy....anyway?" They knew he had strange powers [John 7:3] but they still did not believe in Him (verse 5).
No....I'm sorry. There were three men by the name of James, three by the name of Judas, three men by the name of Simon but Joseph, Our Saviours younger brother....named after his father, was the only Joseph at that point. He had a great uncle....his mother's (Mary's)uncle, Joseph of Arimethia, but besides that....he was the only one.
"I think it's kind of strange that you guys are so utterly threatened by Mary"
We are not threatened by Mary. It is the principle of perspecuity. Words mean what they say in the ordinary sense unless there is an indication that there is a different meaning, like when all the disciples are addressed as brothers, the word has a different meaning than when some are addressed as Jesus' brothers. Otherwise grace can have many meanings and salvation can have many meanings and we are into a secret code that unpacks the scriptures; gnosticism.
"Scripture explicitly says Mary was Full of Grace. This is the opposite of having a "sin nature.""
But grace can mean many things, like favor, or tongues, or elegance or goodwill. Why do you assume it has an ethical meaning?
Where is that in the Bible? (Or is this one of those smuggled in exceptions to 'sola scriptura' that is doing all the behind-the-scenes work?)
-A8
Paul says by one man entered the world and death by him, not Eve. He later says Eve was deceived into transgression but Adam was not deceived when he sinned. He didn't need any help I guess.
Scripture says that Mary will have multiple children. [Psalm 69:8] I am a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my own mother's sons;
John 20:31, "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."
1 John 2:26-27, "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
-A8
Psalm 69:4; Isaiah 49:7 - He will be hated without a cause - John 15:25 - Jesus was hated without a cause.
Psalm 69:9 - zeal for thy house has consumed me - John 2:16-17 - zeal consumed Jesus as He drove out the traders.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/messianic_prophecies.html
If John meant without any qualification that they did not need any man to teach them, then why is he writing five chapters to them? The fact that John is authoritatively *writing* to them shows that their possession of this annointing does not nullify their need of Magisterial authority. John's meaning concerning their "having no need for anyone to teach you" refers to receiving new doctrine (from gnostics), as can be seen in 2:26.
-A8
And in Mary, it has its full meaning, the fullest it can have for a human creature.
That word "Full."
"Plena."
The Greeks, who are great ones for the precise meaning of Greek texts, call her "Panagia."
There's a dramatic and beautiful consensus on Mary's sinlessness --- which was like the sinlessness of Innocent Eve on her first day in the Garden--- a consensus of all who wrote about Mary from the earliest centuries of the Church. Look for one exception--- you'll not find one.
Seriously, this was the overwhelming agreement of believing Christians until very recent times. I think most of our dialog partners here don't realize what a radical discontinuity, what a rupture it is, to impugn Mary the Mother of God as a sinful woman. You find me one holy person in, say, the first millennium of Christianity who would say such a thing.
It's like you're assuming God allowed the Church to be grossly mistaken for centuries upon centuries, mistaken for honoring her who was so closely embraced by God, Bride of the Spirit, overshadowed by the incomprehensible power of the Almighty, and whose flesh enfleshed His all-beautiful Son. Could any intimacy be greater than that! Could any human creature, saved by Christ, be more worthy of honor!
With what a glad heart the Savior of all, Jesus Christ, must have observed this commandment: Honor thy father and thy mother.
lol
I can understand your discomfort in that situation, but you need never feel uncomfortable about calming discussing the truth of the Bible. In fact, it is your duty. I undertand the reason -- the Catholics Mary-fixation and beliefs which contradict -- and therefore deny -- scripture (like Jesus' brother), and the refusal of many of them to discuss the matter rationally and in good faith, if at all. But we need Christian unity, not at the expense of beliefs or truth, at the expense of any dogma we may hold which contradicts scripture.
No Christian should ever feel ashamed to tell any other Christian -- even (especially) his pastor or priest, "Brother/Father, you are mistaken."
It is important to note that even Kings of Israel had to have an occupation. Jesus, son of Joseph and Mary, both of the line of David, was a Prince of the House of Israel, heir to Throne of Israel and Crucified as King of the Jews.
His occupation as carpenter also has several meanings, not just being one who makes wagons or houses, but encompasses one who has been taught the higher mathematics such as geometry and who would, with such knowledge, have been considered a sage or Wise Man.
Are you saying average-Joe carpenters were also geometrists and sages, or that the "word" carpenter holds senses of meaning which cover the spectrum of all those occupations? Because the above information is news to me. I had heard once (but have not verified) that carpenters were also often stone-cutters.
I really take issue with that statement and with your attitude. It is downright false, obstinate, and out of line with polite discourse. Furthermore, I doubt you could cite anything to back it up. Unless, of course, by hate you mean we don't share Catholics' view of them. Which is self-serving logic.
We do not have to choose between false alternatives or loving or hating Mary and/or Joseph depending on our beliefs about them as Protestants or Catholics. It is time such lies be challenged.
If you cannot debate reasonably and factually with people about certain Catholic beliefs which Christians everywhere denounce, you undermine the credibility of your claims. There are mature adults here on this forum who would like to accomplish something besides posting little drive-by dumb comments. Get with the program or find another forum.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.