What happened to Joseph the father of Jesus

All About Jesus ^

[bornacatholic]

I think St. Jerome called Helvidius an ignorant boor

[Salvation]

We will pray for you, because it seems you disagree with even the early reformers. Am I interpreting your comments correctly?

[stainlessbanner]

IIRC Joe contemplated the pregnancy and decided to quietly divorce Mary. An Angel appeared to him and said Mary's child is the work of the Lord. Upon the Angel's word, he took Mary as his wife.

[blue-duncan]

The anthem "Jerusalem" taken from one of his poems is stirring. I play it evry once in a while just for the thrill.

Poem lyrics of Jerusalem by William Blake.

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?

And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold:
Bring me my arrows of desire:
Bring me my spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire.

I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

[1L]

>>for Jesus to give Mary to John at Calvary would have been sinning,<<

Several reasons why this supposition is flawed:

1. Ignores the children dying before Christ's crucifixion;
2. Ignores sisters;
3. No evidence that Jesus' meaning at the cross was to absolve any responsibilities of his brothers; they could have been in hiding fearing for their life;

and most importantly,

4. It couldn't have been a sin for Christ to have done it, even if it went against Jewish tradition at the time. I seem to recall other "traditions" Jesus scoffed at.

[Revelation 911]

The Old Testament is rife with examples of people calling their uncles, cousins and followers "brothers". And never once does the N/T say "these are Mary's sons/daughters".

from a faith group that goes to such great lengths to adhere to a literal interpertation, thats seems contradictive.

The same argument can then be made with the blood and body

[AlbionGirl]

That's beautiful, blue, thanks.

One of Van Morrison's Golden Autumn Day contain a couple of Blake's lines:

Well I heard the bells ringing, I was thinking about winning
In this God forsaken place
When my confidence was well, then I tripped and I felt
Right flat on my face
Now I'm standing erect, and I feel like coming back
And the sun is shining gold
Put a smile on my face, get back in the human race
And get on with the show

And I'm taking in the Indian Summer
And I'm soaking it up in my mind
And I'm pretending that it's paradise
On a golden autumn day, on a golden autumn day
On a golden autumn day, an a golden autumn day

In the wee midnight hour I was parking my car
In this dimly lit town,
I was attacked by two thugs, who took me for a mug
And shoved me down on the ground
And they pulled out a knife, and I fought my way up
As they scarpered from the scene
Well this is no New York street, and there's no Bobby on the beat
And things ain't just what they seem

And I'm taking in the Indian Summer
And I'm soaking it up in my mind
And I'm pretending that it's paradise
On a golden autumn day, on a golden autumn day
On a golden autumn day, an a golden autumn day

Who would think this could happen in a city like this
Among Blake's green and pleasant hills,
And we must remember as we go through September
Among these dark satanic mills
If there's such a thing as justice I could take them out and flog them
In the nearest green field
And it might be a lesson to the bleeders of the system
In this whole society

And I'm taking in the Indian Summer
And I'm soaking it up in my mind
And I'm pretending like it's paradise
On a golden autumn day, on a golden autumn day
On a golden autumn day, on a golden autumn day, golden autumn day ...

[AlbionGirl]

That should read one of Van Morrison's songs.

[jboot]

Interesting article. I'm through-and-through an Augustinian as far as the concept of sin, but it is always valuable to see the insights of others.

BTW, what is the take of the Orthodox on the Immaculate Conception? I have never heard it discussed.

[blue-duncan]

When the stars threw down their spears,
And watered heaven with their tears,
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb, make thee?

Tyger! Tyger! burning bright,
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?

[Mrs. Don-o]

If Mary was not Jesus' true mother in every sense (genetic, gestational, parturient, nurturant) --- inheriting from her all that is heritable in human nature --- then Jesus was not Man: there was no Incarnation, there was no real suffering and death, and there is no Redemption.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I think Protestants see it as a great leap from believing Mary remained virginal her entire life to believing in the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary, neither of which the early nor later Reformers affirmed.

These threads on Mary are difficult because we Protestants can feel our Catholic FRiends recoiling when we state our belief that Mary was as human as you or me. For our part, we recoil at the thought that anyone other than Jesus Christ is divine in any way. 1 Timothy 2:5 is very important to our Scriptural understanding of how we are to live our lives and to whom we are to kneel.

[Mrs. Don-o]

How does that work?

God to Joseph: OK, I had her; I used her; I'm through with her; now you can have her.

Repugnant. Ugly.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I had to memorize that in seventh grade. It still gives me shivers.

[redgolum]

In the first few centuries AD, there were a group of blood relatives of Jesus that caused some of the early Christians fits. Some of them (by no means all) thought that since they were related to Jesus, they should have the top position. Most of those were later proved not to be relatives of Mary or Joseph.

One of them (the group was called Desposyni) was a bishop of Jerusalem (James the just). See the Wiki article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desposyni

Or the New Advent article.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm

It is interesting that some claimed to trace there relation through Mary's parents.

[Campion]

It couldn't have been a sin for Christ to have done it, even if it went against Jewish tradition at the time. I seem to recall other "traditions" Jesus scoffed at.

It's not a "Jewish tradition" that it's wrong to incite or entice someone else to sin.

[jboot]

I am well aware of this point. From my original post:

Of course, this solution also sends us into murky Christoloigical waters where Docetic and Monophysite monters lurk. If Jesus recieved nothing from Mary, where did His humanity come from?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

But that's not what God did. God ordained that Mary would guide the shepherd until he took the staff Himself. It's no dishonor to Mary to say she was chosen by God to be the vessel of Christ's human birth. But our eyes and hearts need to be fixed solely on the gift, and not the package.

[Campion]

These threads on Mary are difficult because we Protestants can feel our Catholic FRiends recoiling when we state our belief that Mary was as human as you or me.

Oh, we have much better news than that. Mary was not "as human as you or me," she was much more human than any of us, because her humanity was not damaged and defaced by sin. Sin never made anyone "more human," it only took them further away from God's design for humanity.

[adiaireton8]

we Protestants can feel our Catholic FRiends recoiling when we state our belief that Mary was as human as you or me.

Where are you getting the notion that we Catholics think Mary was less human than you or me???

-A8