The Character of God’s Words [Septuagint is a Fraud]

The Dean Burgon Society ^ | July, 2005 | H. D. Williams, M.D.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Congrats on the little one. Doesn't get any better than that. I'm fine, can't complain.

[the808bass]

If so, does your tradition believe that baptism is necessary for salvation, in accordance with Scripture?

Wow, I've never seen proof-texting on Free Republic before. Are you positing that there is no other way those verses could be interpreted other than the way you're interpreting it?

[Titanites]

Wow, I've never seen proof-texting on Free Republic before.

You should get around more.

Are you positing that there is no other way those verses could be interpreted other than the way you're interpreting it?

No.

[Kolokotronis]

"Even the classic temple chumash, The Pentatuch and Haftorahs by the late Rabbi JH Hertz references The King James version as a source in his translation from the original Hebrew."

With all due respect, and I trust this isn"t the booze talking as I juat returned from a great party at my koumbaros' house, the KJV is a translation of the OT which was written specifically to oppose the then new Christian witness which is preserved in The Church you see today as Holy Orthodxy and the Latin Church and those Eastern Churches in communion with Rome. Frankly, I think the Protestants should be ashamed of themselves for using such a transparent attack on Christianity as their OT.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

"If so, does your tradition believe that baptism is necessary for salvation, in accordance with Scripture?"

****Wow, I've never seen proof-texting on Free Republic before. Are you positing that there is no other way those verses could be interpreted other than the way you're interpreting it?****

Been living in a cave? there has been many a battle fought over that specific subject here on FR.

[the808bass]

You should get around more.

I'll give it a whirl.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

*** the KJV is a translation of the OT which was written specifically to oppose the then new Christian witness which is preserved in The Church you see today as Holy Orthodxy and the Latin Church and those Eastern Churches in communion with Rome.***

You mean like Eurasmus' Greek texts and Stephens text of 1550 which came from Greek texts brought from Constantinople after the fall of that great city?
Before that the Lollards used Latin texts.

[Iscool]

The New Testament is Tradition written down, but, it is not the fullness of Tradition, If it was, it would state that.

It (the bible) contains every thing I (and you) will ever need to know to gain salvation and rewards in heaven...

Absent the Catholic Church, you would not even have the NT with which to attack us :)

Absent the Catholic church, there'd be far, far more old manuscripts than there are now...And far, far less Christian martyrs...

Please take a few minutes to draft an explanation as to how your particular community had a blessed thing to do with writing a single letter,a single word of the new Testament.

You stated than individual Catholics (I presume) do not have the Spirit of Truth...I showed you scripture that says children of God (that's me) do indeed have the Spirit of Truth dwelling in them...I'm still waiting for your comments on that one...

[bornacatholic]

Imagine that George Bush told his Secretary of State, Condi Rice, to form a Commitee of "experts" to rewrite the Bible.

That is what King Jimmy did - and wasn't he a Saint and, as Scripture prophesied, Commissioned before the Foundation of the World (I forget which Prophet taught that)to rewrite the Word of God via His political pals.(politicians are THE most reliable authors of Scripture) - so, King Jimmy had his political flunkies, in the form of a "Committee" of "experts" rewrite the Word of God. Right

If George Bush decided to rewrite Scripture and Commissioned Condi Rice to form a Committee of "experts" to rewrite Scripture to fit his political ideology, MAYBE some hard-core republicans would say, "cool", but MOST Christians would think, "T'Hell is up with the President? He's gone right round the bend. Who the hell is he to rewrite the Word of God?"

So, protestants got that going for them; which is nice.

OH. The MORE THAN ONE THOUSAND ERRORS IN THE ORIGINAL KJV VERION? Well, come on. It WAS a COMMITTEE of ideological politicians. What did you expect?

[bornacatholic]

One's personal opinion of what scripture means is but the personal tradition of the individual exegete

[markomalley]

So, is Williams' point that Catholics use the Septuagint, the Septuagint is suspect, and therefore, Catholicism is suspect? Is that the crux of his argument?

How about this: Catholics use the Septuagint, therefore the Septuagint is suspect...

[Kolokotronis]

"The nire I study if the ministry of the Holy SPirit, the more I have bcome convinced that the import of Scriptueal study is to remain in fellowship with God through faith in Christ, thereby allowwing God the Holy Spirit make the LOGOS perceptible to the student and deliver that faith to the believer. All faith is from God, and when we begin to rely on human transltions rather than His work in us, we fail to allow Him to place the faith in us."

You know C, you're right at a basic level. My Greek great grandmother was lucky she could read (she came from an successful family where women were allowed such things). She probably could spell "canon" in Greek, let alone English, but the woman was a saint. She died nearly sixty years ago, before I was born, but every memorial day I plant violets, her favorite flower, on her grave her in her "promised land" and her prika (dowry) land is now mine and still preserved as the same olive grove it was when she left Greece nearly 100 years ago. She had her "iconas", she went to the Divine Liturgy every Sunday, even when she had her "period" and had to stand outside the church and stick her head in through the window, and her best friends were "O Christoulis mou" (my little Christ) and the "Panagiaitsa (the little Panagia, Mary). Our human translations of the scriptures are all so much foolishness. The writers of the scripture were inspired of the Holy Spirit, but they were still men, fallen men, trying far better than thee or me, to expose the ineffable Creator of the Universe to all of us poor sinners and show us the way to achieve, through the grace of God, some similitude to Christ, to attain and fulfill the reason God created man in the first place to be fully and absolutely in the image and likeness of God.

By God's grace, my "proyiayia" (great grandmother) was able to see that and likely never read anybody's translation of the bible. She only had her Faith and the Church, and that was enough, as it was for 1700 years at least of her ancestors..

[Iscool]

One's personal opinion of what scripture means is but the personal tradition of the individual exegete

Couple of issues here...The scripture was written so most any 16 year old can get it...It's not a matter of what it means...It's a matter of believing it and then correctly putting it together...

Believing it is easy enough for those of us that chose to...Putting it together requires the help of the Spirit of Truth...

[Invincibly Ignorant]

That's the first honest thing I've ever heard you say. Bravo!

Thanx, glad you appreciated the sarcasm.

[bornacatholic]

The Ecumenical councils were called to combat Christian heresies. I am sure you recognise the difference twixt the Ecumenical Councils and the one at Jamnia.

[bornacatholic]

It wasn't

[bornacatholic]

You never posted scripture teaching that

[Invincibly Ignorant]

The Ecumenical councils were called to combat Christian heresies.

Thought I just said that?

I am sure you recognise the difference twixt the Ecumenical Councils and the one at Jamnia.

Sure do.

[r9etb]

So, is Williams' point that Catholics use the Septuagint, the Septuagint is suspect, and therefore, Catholicism is suspect? Is that the crux of his argument?

There's a whole whackadoodle wing out there that, so far as I can tell, thinks anything other than the King James Version is pretty much the work of the devil.

They're not rational on the topic of different Bible translations.