Posted on 01/06/2007 7:13:58 AM PST by Titanites
"Probably they see the differences in the KJV and the LXX, and suspect the tricky Greeks hoodwinked them :)."
Undoubtedly. Beware of Greeks bearing gifts! Septuagint=Spiritual Trojan Horse! :)
You're welcome!
"Revelation" would have been circulated as a single book (scroll or codex, depending on where it was copied) and eventually included in various collections of Christian writings, before the canon was finalized by the Council of Carthage.
The chance that the references to adding or deleting had anything to do with modern compilations of the Old Testament would be ... well, not zero, but pretty close!
Oh sure. Rabbis all met in Jambia so that they could deliberately alter the accuracy of their own writings. When are you people going to grow up?
Well, actually, the 10 Commandments are from the hand of man, too, unless the early manuscripts had "See Picture 2" with photos of the tablets.
Well, they probably didn't meet in Jamnia and establish a canon. But about that time they began to prefer the Hebrew Sciptures in a way they hadn't before. The messianic movements were a product of Hellenistic times and the apocalyptic bookswritten in Greek(or Aramaic) included in the Septuagent supported the messianic interpretation of Scripture. Accepting the book of Daniel was about as far as they were willing to go.
In an odd turn of fate, I'll agree with you on this one.
Sorry -- but the teacher in me is coming out.
**weren't not**
??
***it doesn't have all the books! LOL!***
Actually it did in the first 1611 translations. You can still get Cambridge KJVs with it in it and you can also order it separate in a small booklet form. Nelson publishers' version of the 1611 also has it in it.
"Therefore, one must keep in mind that the Jews' problem with the deuterocanonical books (called apocrypha by Luther as a deliberate attempt to mislead people) was that they prophecised Christ in the most precise manner!:
I see it a little differently.
I don't read much greater precision about Christ in the Deuterocanonica than in the rest of the Bible, particularly Isaiah, the Psalms and, to a degree, Daniel.
I think the Jews at Jamnia rejected the Septuagint primarily because it was GREEK, and the Jews in post-revolt mode were EXTREMELY bigoted and racist, and rejected anything that wasn't Hebrew as unacceptable (even though the Jews themselves didn't actually SPEAK Hebrew themselves anymore, and hadn't for centuries).
I think Martin Luther's problem with the Deuterocanonica is entirely contained in one passage of one book only: 2 Maccabbees. I don't have the text immediately at hand, but essentially there is a section in which the Maccabeans have a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the dead, and specifically so that the sins in which those dead died would be forgiven by God.
Obviously, this is prayers for the dead, and the offerings made to the Temple for the souls of the dead, and the forgiveness of the sins of the dead hoped for by this pious exercise, is Biblical authority for the efficacy of INDULGENCES!!!
Luther couldn't abide that, and HAD to get rid of 2 Maccabbees, specifically. Jamnia was the excuse.
Luther also wanted to get rid of James, because of "faith without works is dead" - the NECESSITY of works offended his theology. But he didn't have a Jamnia to rely upon for the NT.
yes, but also the wording specifically used by John " adding or subtracting words from this SCROLL...", which is of course the medium upon the text was written. specifically, then, John is arguing that no-one should change the words in the Book of Revelation itself.
****So, the protestants relied upon those who rejected Jesus to decide what is and isn't Christian belief. It can not be said that is an uninteresting idea.****
It should also be remembered that the SHEPHERD OF HERMAS is also in one the Greek bibles found in Sinai in the 1850's but is still not found in either the Catholic or KJV versions of the bible.
Luther had qualms with "praying for the dead", since he felt that Faith ALone saved oneself, and here, in someone praying for you, would not fit in his mis-guided interpretation.
the whole New Testament is filled with people asking Jesus to heal / cure / drive out demons - but not for themselves! the paralytic who was lowered thru the rood of Peter's house- "Jesus, seeing THEIR faith...", the father of the boy with demons ( you think the boy with demons is going to ask Jesus to cure himself? ), the centurion who asked that his servant be cured, the father of the sick girl...etc.
protestants want to make Christianity into a "Me & Jesus alone" type faith, and leave out the rest of humanity.
************
Good heavens.
Wow. Long time no see. Where you been hiding?
Good point!
I concede and suspect that the Spirit of Truth does not reside in most Catholics...That would explain why God's word (the bible) takes the back seat to your religious tradition...
But for many of us outside of your religion, the Spirit of Truth resides within us and guides us...
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
But do not fret...The Spirit of Truth is available to all Catholics as well...Call on Jesus...Confess to Jesus to being a sinner and confess to Jesus that you need a Savior and ask Jesus to save you...He will fill you with the Spirit of Truth...Praise God...And he will give you assurance of eternal salvation...
oh enlightened one! please tell me, if i sin, but believe in Jesus, have Faith in HIm, will i be saved?
You spose then that God is alright with people adding and subtracting to Matthew, or Romans and still calling it the word of God???
Ha...What is this, a trick question??? The devils believe, and they tremble...
Nope...You must call on 'HIM', confess to 'HIM' that you need a Savior and ask 'HIM' to save you...And He will...
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