The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)

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[NYer]

The Crucifixion of Saint Peter

Please allow a few minutes for me to post the Scriptural Source for this thread. Thank you!

[NYer]

In keeping with guidelines posted by the Religion Moderator, we are posting this thread (and future ones) a series on the Early Church Fathers, as a Catholic/Orthodox Caucus. Protestants are welcome to post comments but restraint from attacks, would be appreciated. This thread is posted to inform, support and defend the historic orgins of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches

[NYer]

Scriptural Basis

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen." - Matthew 28:18-20

"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." - Matthew 16:13-20

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you." - John 16:13-14

"So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep." - John 21:15-17

"Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." - Matthew 18:18

[NYer]

What the Catechism of the Catholic Church says on the "Papacy:"

869. "The Church is apostolic. She is built on a lasting foundation: 'the twelve apostles of the Lamb' [Rev 21:14.]. She is indestructible (cf. Mt 16:18). She is upheld infallibly in the truth: Christ governs her through Peter and the other apostles, who are present in their successors, the Pope and the college of bishops."

881. "The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the 'rock' of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. [Cf. Mt 16:18-19; Jn 21:15-17 .] 'The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head.' [LG 22 # 2.] This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church's very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope."

882. "The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, 'is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.' [LG 23.] 'For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.' [LG 22; cf. CD 2,9.]"

895. "'The power which they exercise personally in the name of Christ, is proper, ordinary, and immediate, although its exercise is ultimately controlled by the supreme authority of the Church.' [LG 27.] But the bishops should not be thought of as vicars of the Pope. His ordinary and immediate authority over the whole Church does not annul, but on the contrary confirms and defends that of the bishops. Their authority must be exercised in communion with the whole Church under the guidance of the Pope."

[NYer]

One compelling biblical fact that points clearly to Simon Peter’s primacy among the 12 Apostles and his importance and centrality to the drama of Christ’s earthly ministry, is that he is mentioned by name (e.g. Simon, Peter, Cephas, Kephas, etc.) 195 times in the course of the New Testament. The next most often-mentioned Apostle is St. John, who is mentioned a mere 29 times. After John, in descending order, the frequency of the other Apostles being mentioned by name trails off rapidly.

When the names of all the Apostles are listed, Peter is always first. Judas Iscariot, the Lord’s traitor, is always listed last (cf. Matt. 10:2-5; Mark 3:16-19; Luke 6:14-17; and Acts 1:13). Sometimes Scripture speaks simply of “Simon Peter and the rest of the Apostles” or “Peter and his companions” (cf. Luke 9:32; Mark 16:7; Acts 2:37), showing that he had a special role that represented the entire apostolic college. Often, Scripture shows Simon Peter as spokesman for the entire apostolic college, as if he were the voice of the Church (cf. Mat. 18:21; Mark 8:29; Luke 8:45; Luke 12:41; John 6:68-69).

The Primacy of Peter

[NYer]

There is an unbroken line of succession from St. Peter. The current successor ...

Pope Benedict XVI

[Kolokotronis]

"The Bishop of Alexandria shall have jurisdiction over Egypt, Libya, and Pentapolis. As also the Roman bishop over those subject to Rome. So, too, the Bishop of Antioch and the rest over those who are under them. If any be a bishop contrary to the judgment of the Metropolitan, let him be no bishop. Provided it be in accordance with the canons by the suffrage of the majority, if three object, their objection shall be of no force." Canon VI of the Council of Nicea, 325

[Salvation]

The Early Church Fathers

The Early Church Fathers on The Church (Catholic Caucus)

Early Church Fathers on (Oral) Tradition - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Apostolic Succession - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)

[NYer]

Assisted by two papal priest-legates, Vito and Vincentius, Hosius of Cordova presided at the Council of Nicaea. It is reasonably certain that Pope Sylvester had designated Hosius, as well as the two legates, to represent him. Hosius and the legates were the first to sign the decrees of the Council. In fact, says historian Luke Rivington, the Graeco-Russian liturgy, in the office for Pope Sylvester, speaks of him as actual head of the Council of Nicaea: "Thou hast shown thyself the supreme one of the Sacred Council, O Initiator into the sacred mysteries, and hast illustrated the Throne of the Supreme One of the Disciples."

The Council of Nicaea condemned the teachings of Arius as blasphemy and accepted the word homoousios ("of one substance") as the appropriate term for the relation of God the Father and God the Son. The result of the council, according to Gillquist, was that "the Orthodoxy of Athanasius had prevailed at the Council." The orthodoxy of whom? Where did Athanasius get his "Orthodoxy"? From Pope Victor, who a century and a half earlier had condemned the teaching of Theodotus, a doctrinal ancestor of Arius, and from Pope Dionysius, who sixty years earlier had condemned what was called later the Arian heresy and who fixed the term homoousios as a key to authentic Christology.

Meyendorff ignores the repeated, clearly attested exercise of papal universal jurisdiction which we have seen in the first, second, third, and fourth centuries. He declares that, except for the Council of Chalcedon in 451, the papacy "had no decisive influence upon the trinitarian and christological debates raging in the East" in the early centuries. Instead, the ultimate ecclesial authority was "the conciliar agreement of the episcopate." The facts are otherwise. Only the successor of Peter could and did "strengthen the brethren" and bring about the triumph of orthodox christology.

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[NYer]

Thank you for keeping track of these threads and posting the links!

[Kolokotronis]

Orthodox ping. Take a look at post #9. It appears that the Catholic/Orthodox Caucus thread on the "Early Church Fathers" will be using post schism Latin polemics and apologetics to advance the claims of the papacy to universal immediate jurisdiction to which we are expected to "submit". Anyone care to have a chat with them about this?

[Kolokotronis]

Written by a convert from TEC I see.

[TexConfederate1861]

The Pope has no "universal" jurisdiction. He is primus inter pares, nothing more.

[TexConfederate1861]

I'm not submitting, and that is for SURE!
The "gauntlet" has been thrown!

[Kolokotronis]

"I'm not submitting, and that is for SURE!"

Nor I nor any Orthodox Christian; for that matter, most of the Eastern Rite Catholics aren't submitting even now. God willing, our hierarchs won't be as foolish as those who represented us at Florence! If they are, they'll meet with the same result their predecessors did.

[Enosh]

(Peacemaker/humorist role on)

Sometimes when I'm feeding the birds, several crows will assemble.

They will size each other up by pointing their beaks straight into the sky whilst unfurling their feathers.

The largest of them will then triumphantly announce, "Kwawawaawaaawaaaaa Ki-Ki-Ki!"

Sometimes this annoys the second largest, who then pokes the largest with his beak. Big Bird usually squawks something unprintable here, and trots off.

Moral of the story?

(Cliché time!)

"Can't we all just get along?"

:^D

[NYer]

Written by a convert from TEC I see.

And your point is???

[NYer]

Every government ..... every corporation ... every enterprise .... has one person at its helm. Consensus can rule for just so long; ultimately it requires a 'final' decision maker. Is it so difficult to accept that even Christ recognized this and chose St. Peter to be that person? As such, successors to that chair have followed.

This is not intended to diminsh the roles of Patriarchs, Cardinals, Metropolitans, bishops, et al. If anything, it supports the need for their input into all discussions of faith. (I now know this intimately by virtue of my choosing to join the Maronite Catholic Church which has a Pariarch as its overseer.) But, ultimately, there needs to be a final voice. And that voice is the Successor of St. Peter.

[Kolokotronis]

"And your point is???"

That he had two choices if he wanted to stay in a liturgical church. He chose Rome doubtless because of the control from the top system and the claimed infallibility of the Pope. And like so many converts, he has become something of a polemical partisan of the false claims of the Papacy.

In all honesty, NYer, if I believed for one minute that Rome still claimed what this author asserts, I'd do everything in my power to make sure the next meeting of the dialog is the last. Its just such attitudes in the Roman Church which make us Orthodox recall the warning of +Mark of Ephesus:

"It is impossible to recall peace without dissolving the cause of the schism - the primacy of the Pope exalting himself equal to God."

[Enosh]

Christ is our boss.

Friends, you are the two crows fighting over nothing in my joke observation.

Christ is our boss.