THE TRUE NATURE OF FASTING (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America ^ | Mother Mary & +Kallistos Ware

[Kolokotronis]

"Fasting is wonderful, because it tramples our sins like a dirty weed, while it cultivates and raises truth like a flower." +John Chrysostomos

[Kolokotronis]

Catholic/Orthodox Caucus Great Lent Fasting ping. I have pinged several Protestant Freepers as I understand that this ascetical practice has gained some currency among them over the past few years.

[NYer]

True fasting is to be converted in heart and will; it is to return to God, to come home like the Prodigal to our Father's house. In the words of St. John Chrysostom, it means 'abstinence not only from food but from sins'. 'The fast', he insists, 'should be kept not by the mouth alone but also by the eye, the ear, the feet, the hands and all the members of the body': the eye must abstain from impure sights, the ear from malicious gossip, the hands from acts of injustice. 6 It is useless to fast from food, protests St. Basil, and yet to indulge in cruel criticism and slander: 'You do not eat meat, but you devour your brother'

A very timely, albeit lengthy, treatise on fasting and abstinence. With Ash Monday on Feb. 19 and Ash Wednesday on Feb. 21, this is an excellent opportunity to reflect on our lives and formulate a plan for Lent.

'You do not eat meat, but you devour your brother'

Wisdom that applies to all liturgical seasons, not just Lent. Thank you for the post and ping!

[Mad Dawg]

All I know is that when I'm fasting, time goes by slowly, while when I'm feasting time is fast.

Go figger.

[Kolokotronis]

"All I know is that when I'm fasting, time goes by slowly, while when I'm feasting time is fast."

Gives you time to reflect on what's important, my brother.

[Kolokotronis]

It is long, but I felt that what it says is important for all of us in The Church to think on as we approach the holiest time of the year. Great Lent is a time to look forward to as a period when we can focus on what really counts in our lives, which is to say, that we fulfill the purpose for which God created us. The ancient, scriptural practice of fasting clears the mind and the body, so that we might more clearly focus on Christ in preparation for our liberation at the Resurrection. That's not something most of us can do starting on the way to Church on Pascha.

[Enosh]

several Protestant Freepers

Thanks for the ping!

Not many Protestants I know practice fasting, but some do. As far as I know, it is neither required or prohibited.

However, should one decide to do so, it is looked upon as an extension to prayer. Fasting, along with prayer, is a way to go past the normal daily relationship with God and seek an even more close, personal meeting.

Instead of the usual head bowed in prayer type worship, fasting allows you to stand up and give God a great big hug, so to speak.

And He lets us do it!

[Invincibly Ignorant]

The "true" nature of fasting?

That's easy. You want to be like Christ, right? So fast for 40 days and nights.

[Kolokotronis]

"However, should one decide to do so, it is looked upon as an extension to prayer. Fasting, along with prayer, is a way to go past the normal daily relationship with God and seek an even more close, personal meeting."

That's exactly what it is. Most people who fast during Great Lent, and for that matter on Wednesdays and Fridays and the other fast periods, reltively soon come to experience a certain clarity of the eye of the soul, so that the "dark glass" becomes a bit less translucent. But there are real here and now benefits. Fasting does teach us to focus on what is important in our daily lives. It allows one to put the regular hassles of life in a proper perspective and brings an enhanced equinimity to our lives.

"Fasting is the champion of every virtue, the beginning of the struggle, the crown of the abstinent, the beauty of virginity and sanctity, the resplendence of chastity, the commencement of the path of Christianity, the mother of prayer, the well-spring of sobriety and prudence, the teacher of stillness, and the precursor of all good works. Just as the enjoyment of light is coupled with healthy eyes, so desire for prayer accompanies fasting that is practiced with discernment." +Isaac the Syrian

[Kolokotronis]

"So fast for 40 days and nights."

For most of us, that would be suicide, II. Are suggesting that Christ and The Church calls us to suicide? If so, I have to assume that you have come into this caucus thread to cause trouble.

[kosta50]

"I neither fasted nor kept vigils, nor slept on bare floors but — to borrow the Psalmist's words — 'I humbled myself' and, in short, 'the Lord saved me.'" [Saint Symeon the Theolgian, On Faith, Philokalia, Vol 4)

Fasting should be an expression of our spiritual maturity and not a legalistic rule. Unfortunately, it is more of the latter than the former, imo.

The early Church did not have these rules. They are man-made, let's be clear on that.

Serbian Patriarch Pavle wrote recently on the subject of both Communion and Fasting where he gives a historical overview of the early Church practice:

"The fasting periods were practiced at certain times as needed and Communion was administered regularly in the fasting seasons as well as when meat and dairy foods were used. During the fasting seasons they fasted and communed, during non fasts, they ate and communed just like the clergy do today. In the early Church there was no special preparation for Communion, nor was a fast considered as the only means for Communion. The preparation for Holy Communion was life-long process of keeping the commandments and guarding against all sin."

Apparently the level of devotion changed when Christianity was no longer persecuted.

"[T]here was a movement in the Church of those "who did not find their treasures hidden in the field and were not ready to sell everything to buy that field (St. Matthew 13,44). At this behavior the level of morality of the Christians fell to a low standard. Many still approached Holy Communion regularly but without a serious commitment to Him. Others began to delay their trip to the Holy Chalice with the excuse of not enough preparation. But the effort of soul cleansing was only from time to time for a few days before Holy Communion. Even this practice became harder for them and they further delayed their preparation and their receiving of Communion until it happened that they communed only four times a year and it gradually became even less."

As a result, the St. John Chrysostom (Bishop of Constantinople) established the 40-day fasting rules.

"In view of this situation, according to St. John Chrysostom, the Church established the forty day fast before Pascha. Realizing the danger that comes from such habits, the Holy Fathers ordered forty days of fasting that we all cleanse ourselves carefully through prayer, charity, fasting, vigils and tears. In this manner we may approach Holy Communion with a clear conscience as much as possible. As for the others, the Church Fathers say that they must make every effort, not only before Holy Communion , but always to live a Godly life in order to receive."

But, the Patriarch warns that fasting has become a ritual

"Of all the methods to cleance the soul for this most important union with Christ in receiving His Body and Blood, our people see only the physical fast. Many priests pose before the faithful just one question - did you fast? When they answer positively, he allows them to approach, as if that one thing is of major importance. Everything else is secondary as does he value the magnitude of what he is receiving, does he knows the Creed, basic prayers, is his tongue and mouth clear of lies, cursing and filthy language, and is he in a quarrel with someone?"

It is by far more important to be Christ-like in our hearts than to fast 'just as He did.'

Fasting rules also do not take into account medical conditions of many people. The life was much shorter in +John Chrysostom's time, and the nature of ailments that killed people was qualitatively different from the most degenerative processes of today.

We live longer to a great extent because of the many amenities of medical science, and that is often a very fine equilibrium that keeps us alive, whether it is sugar, heart, electrolyte or any other aspect of our health.

Rigorous fasting can disturb and even endanger a person's health. A diabetic who avoids all animal products and concentrates his or her fast on carbohydrates during the two 40-day fasts can literally commit suicide fasting.

Someone with compromised kidneys who eats proteins can do the same. People need essential amino acids which are found only in animal products.

The sweeping generalization of fasting rules also ignored to account the rationale for abstaining from all animal products and olive oil!

It so often happens that when the Church is questioned about its (man-made rules) the answers are nothing short of revolting. The other day I asked why is collection being made in the middle of the Lord's Prayer (which is highly distracting and, more so, disrespectful) and the answer the priest gave me was: "that's the way it's always done."

It also goes hand-in-hand with Tolstoy's famous "Three Little Hermits," by all accounts three holy men who, although they walk on water (unbeknownst to a pompous bishop), in their humility say to him that they don't know how to serve the Lord and the bishops says to the effect that he sees they have 'some idea' about God, but he will teach them the 'proper' way to serve the Lord.

The bottom line is that even +John Chrysostom says in his Paschal homily that those who fasted and those who didn't are all welcome.

Echoing +Symeon the Theologian, true fast is humility. All else will follow 'naturally.'

[kosta50]

Ping #11

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Was just wondering how Christlike you'd care to be over the lenton season. I want no trouble. Didn't think you'd get so defensive. Sorry.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

And Christ wouldn't have pinged the Religion Moderator either. :-)

[Mad Dawg]

One of my favorite lines in scripture is "And afterwards He was hungry. (or "anhungered" - even better.)

First, it's a big duh!

But then you think what the Incarnation and the "work of Christ" was, and how the Son of that same God who said,"If I were hungry, I wouldn't tell YOU!" is so hungry that poor old Satan thinks this is a good time to tempt him.

[Mad Dawg]

II,

Ay yay yay!

FYI: the "Caucus" label presupposes an irenic discussion among people of more or less like minds.

I don't know whether you came to tear up the pea-patch, but it is appropriate to ping the RM in a Caucus if one thinks that somebody has come not to discuss but to debate or attack the premise.

[Religion Moderator]

On caucus threads, if you are not a member of the caucus then you are a guest in the other guy's church and must behave accordingly.

[Enosh]

Christlike

Moses and Elijah both fasted for forty days too. (Moses did so twice!)

Hmmm...

Moses could have asked God to zing you with lightning from the Ark of the Covenant, or squashed you with a couple stone tablets, or even whack you upside the head with the serpent staff which might possibly even cause water to gush forth. (Or divide.)

Elijah could call down fire from heaven on you or even ask a flock of ravens to poop on you.

These are not dudes you want to mess with.

Jesus, of course, would forgive you.

;)

Hehee...

[narses]

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[Kolokotronis]

Kosta, do you know priests or bishops who instruct their people to fast to the point of making themselves ill? Any who tell diabetics or others who must eat that they cannot receive communion? I certainly trust not. Fasting is a practice to improve us, not kill us or make us sick. I know of no Orthodox priest or bishop, save for, alas, a few "crazy converts" who are so legalistic about fasting that they would endanger their people for the sake of adhering to fasting rules. On the other hand, serving non fast foods at a parish function during Great Lent or any other fasting period is improper and is a scandal to the faithful.