Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Early Church Fathers on the Immaculate Conception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Stay Catholic ^

Posted on 02/11/2007 2:54:59 PM PST by NYer

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-25 next last

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse unto thee!

Please allow a few minutes to post the Scriptural Basis. Thank you!

1 posted on 02/11/2007 2:55:02 PM PST by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

In keeping with guidelines posted by the Religion Moderator, we are posting this thread (and future ones) a series on the Early Church Fathers, as a Catholic/Orthodox Caucus. Protestants are welcome to post comments but restraint from attacks, would be appreciated. This thread is posted to inform, support and defend the historic orgins of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

2 posted on 02/11/2007 2:58:17 PM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Scriptural Basis


II. Mary - the Immaculate Ark of the New Covenant

Exodus 25:11-21 - the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God's Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh.

2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.

1 Chron. 13:9-10 - this is another account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible.

1 Chron. 15 and 16 - these verses show the awesome reverence the Jews had for the Ark - veneration, vestments, songs, harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets.

Luke 1:39 / 2 Sam. 6:2 - Luke's conspicuous comparison's between Mary and the Ark described by Samuel underscores the reality of Mary as the undefiled and immaculate Ark of the New Covenant. In these verses, Mary (the Ark) arose and went / David arose and went to the Ark. There is a clear parallel between the Ark of the Old and the Ark of the New Covenant.

Luke 1:41 / 2 Sam. 6:16 - John the Baptist / King David leap for joy before Mary / Ark. So should we leap for joy before Mary the immaculate Ark of the Word made flesh.

Luke 1:43 / 2 Sam. 6:9 - How can the Mother / Ark of the Lord come to me? It is a holy privilege. Our Mother wants to come to us and lead us to Jesus.

Luke 1:56 / 2 Sam. 6:11 and 1 Chron. 13:14 - Mary / the Ark remained in the house for about three months.

Rev 11:19 - at this point in history, the Ark of the Old Covenant was not seen for six centuries (see 2 Macc. 2:7), and now it is finally seen in heaven. The Jewish people would have been absolutely amazed at this. However, John immediately passes over this fact and describes the "woman" clothed with the sun in Rev. 12:1. John is emphasizing that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and who, like the Old ark, is now worthy of veneration and praise. Also remember that Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1 are tied together because there was no chapter and verse at the time these texts were written.

Rev 12:1 - the "woman" that John is describing is Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Just as the moon reflects the light of the sun, so Mary, with the moon under her feet, reflects the glory of the Sun of Justice, Jesus Christ.

Rev. 12:17 - this verse tells us that Mary's offspring are those who keep God's commandments and bear testimony to Jesus. This demonstrates, as Catholics have always believed, that Mary is the Mother of all Christians.

Rev. 12:2 - Some Protestants argue that, because the woman had birth pangs, she was a woman with sin. However, Revelation is apocalyptic literature unique to the 1st century. It contains varied symbolism and multiple meanings of the woman (Mary, the Church and Israel). The birth pangs describe both the birth of the Church and Mary's offspring being formed in Christ. Mary had no birth pangs in delivering her only Son Jesus.

Isaiah 66:7 - for example, we see Isaiah prophesying that before she (Mary) was in labor she gave birth; before her pain came upon her she was delivered of a son (Jesus). This is a Marian prophecy of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.

Gal 4:19 - Paul also describes his pain as birth pangs in forming the disciples in Christ. Birth pangs describe formation in Christ.

Rom. 8:22 - also, Paul says the whole creation has been groaning in travail before the coming of Christ. We are all undergoing birth pangs because we are being reborn into Jesus Christ.

Jer. 13:21 - Jeremiah describes the birth pangs of Israel, like a woman in travail. Birth pangs are usually used metaphorically in the Scriptures.

Hos. 13:12-13 - Ephraim is also described as travailing in childbirth for his sins. Again, birth pangs are used metaphorically.

Micah 4:9-10 - Micah also describes Jerusalem as being seized by birth pangs like a woman in travail.

Rev. 12:13-16 - in these verses, we see that the devil still seeks to destroy the woman even after the Savior is born. This proves Mary is a danger to satan, even after the birth of Christ. This is because God has given her the power to intercede for us, and we should invoke her assistance in our spiritual lives.

3 posted on 02/11/2007 3:02:33 PM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
The Early Church Fathers

The Early Church Fathers on The Church (Catholic Caucus)

Early Church Fathers on (Oral) Tradition - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Apostolic Succession - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)

The Early Church Fathers on Hell - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Intercession of the Saints - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on The Real Presence - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Confession / Reconciliation - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on the Immaculate Conception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

4 posted on 02/11/2007 4:39:54 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Awesome work, NYer. Thank you for the collection of resources to read and study.


5 posted on 02/11/2007 5:02:08 PM PST by Maeve (St. Maron, pray for us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Rev. 12:13-16 - in these verses, we see that the devil still seeks to destroy the woman even after the Savior is born. This proves Mary is a danger to satan, even after the birth of Christ. This is because God has given her the power to intercede for us, and we should invoke her assistance in our spiritual lives.

13

When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.

14

But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, 11 so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year.

15

The serpent, 12 however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current.

16

But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth.


6 posted on 02/12/2007 5:53:35 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: trisham

Beautiful picture. Do you know the name and the artist?


7 posted on 02/12/2007 6:31:08 AM PST by Hoosier Catholic Momma (We interrupt this tagline to announce that another little FReeper (#4) is due 10/8/07!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Hoosier Catholic Momma

No. I googled it. :) It's supposedly from the church of St. John the Baptist.


8 posted on 02/12/2007 6:49:59 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Hoosier Catholic Momma; trisham
The painting is titled La Madone aux Roses and the artist is William Bouguereau. (The link takes you to the page for the work with a larger image than trisham posted and that image links to a high resolution image.)

You can view more of his works here by scrolling down a bit. You can also search within the pages that contain his work.

9 posted on 02/12/2007 6:52:04 AM PST by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ELS

Wow. Well done, ELS! Thanks!


10 posted on 02/12/2007 6:54:43 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Hoosier Catholic Momma; trisham
Beautiful picture. Do you know the name and the artist?

William-Adolphe Bougereau

READ MORE

11 posted on 02/12/2007 7:15:20 AM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: NYer

What a talented artist. Amazing.


12 posted on 02/12/2007 7:19:33 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: All

Thanks for the response(s)!!!!

Note my new tagline, BTW!


13 posted on 02/12/2007 7:25:20 AM PST by Hoosier Catholic Momma (We interrupt this tagline to announce that another little FReeper (#4) is due 10/8/07!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: NYer

As if "early Church Fathers" is significant name dropping compared to "Biblical reference to the immaculate conception" of which there's none.


14 posted on 02/12/2007 7:26:57 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Acts 17:11 also known as sola scriptura.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DungeonMaster; Religion Moderator

Please remember that you are a guest in our Church, so to speak. So of us truly value reading and learning more about our faith without unpleasant comments from others.

Please respect the Caucus nature of this thread.


15 posted on 02/12/2007 7:57:55 AM PST by mockingbyrd (peace begins in the womb)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: ELS; Hoosier Catholic Momma; trisham

A soul brought to heaven

In one of his biographies, I read that a priest was called to his deathbed to administer the Last Rites. Bouguereau repented for some of his artwork and asked the priest to bless his feet, hands and eyes that had brought shame to God. (Wish I could find the original version).

16 posted on 02/12/2007 8:00:49 AM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Hoosier Catholic Momma
Note my new tagline, BTW!

Congratulations!!

17 posted on 02/12/2007 8:15:08 AM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: NYer

The angels are amazing, but I don't like how the soul is depicted.


18 posted on 02/12/2007 8:23:04 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480; NYer

Maybe that is what Bouguereau was repenting for as per NYer's reply. ;-)


19 posted on 02/12/2007 8:34:56 AM PST by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: DungeonMaster
As if "early Church Fathers" is significant name dropping compared to "Biblical reference to the immaculate conception" of which there's none

"Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee." (St. Luke 1.28) The word "full of grace" - "kecharitomene" in Greek - means a plenitude of grace received in the past and continuing in the present - "Are-graced".

"It is permissible, on Greek grammatical and linguistic grounds, to paraphrase kecharitomene as completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament).

"She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. ... God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. ... God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her." (Martin Luther, Personal Prayer Book (1522), Jaroslav Pelikan, ed., Luther's Works (St. Louis: Concordia), vol. 43, 40.)

"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." (Genesis 3.15)

How could Blessed Mary be at enmity with the devil if she was at any time under his power through sin?

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin." (Martin Luther: Sermon, 1527)

20 posted on 02/12/2007 8:38:48 AM PST by Andrew Byler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-25 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson