Posted on 03/09/2007 3:53:04 PM PST by Terriergal
Where is the Holy Spirit in ANYTHING that Rick Warren has done to draw a church? Have just the right sound equipment, bright lights, comfy seats, upbeat music, nice bathrooms and nurserys and by golly folks will flock to your church. Whatever happened to John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Rick Warren has far more in common with the Pelagian Charles Finney than New Testament Christianity
Thank God for Rick Warren threads. Right now I go through 23 1/2 hours a day without thinking about him. Without threads like this, it would be 24 hours a day. Why, I would NEVER think about Rick Warren.
I mean, that would be bad, right?
You said it. So much of American Christianity is spoiled and bratty. I find it annoying.
You also mentioned air conditioning. I guess you haven't been to a church that preaches the real truth then. None of that would stop me from gladly supporting a church that preaches the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, you're wrong when you say "You and me included."
You've been in the military, you can stand a little discomfort/inconvenience. They teach you to put up with that kind of thing for the greater goal. Give us a little credit who haven't been. We aren't all wusses. Those that are you should be telling to buck up, not coddling their shallowness.
lol
"And for a small fee, we have just the right people to help you do that... just order my purpose-driven church health survey..."
lol again!!!
Naw, now see you're being sarcastic. Rick says that comes out of fear and anger, dontcha know?
thank you!!!
You got it!!
But ya did have me worried there for a sec...
No, sorry... better go get some pepto bismol. This is standard truth from the big kahuna himself. He wrote a best selling book about it you know... and it's getting hard in some locales to find a church that isn't following the pied piper. We have to drive a half hour to get to church now. The next one we found, which didn't have air conditioning at the time and still doesn't have a youth group or much for nursery facilities or KIDS for that matter, and which we would join in a heartbeat if it were closer, was an hour and a half drive. That church's messages (www.twincityfellowship.com) online were what kept us encouraged and kept us going through some really dark times when we got church disciplined out of our church for confronting the pastor on his rotten behavior toward other congregants, and questioning his teaching. (mostly Purpose Driven).
I'd be happy if our church backed off on the air conditioning some. That building is so stinkin' cold year round that I have to always have a jacket with me.
As for me, Andy Neckar sums it up quite nicely:
http://www.cnview.com/on_line_resources/why_i_expose_error.htm
WHY I EXPOSE ERROR AND WARN BELIEVERS
by Andy Neckar Editor, Christian News & Views
WHY I EXPOSE ERROR AND WARN BELIEVERS
I am grieved for those who cannot understand my concerns and my warnings. I am not "attacking" the ministers who are obviously in error. I have nothing against them personally. I praise the Lord for every good thing in them and for every soul saved under their ministries. But souls saved are "in spite of ", not "because of " many of their messages. God’s Word will not return to Him void. (Isaiah 55:11) I cannot and will not ignore the things they are doing "publicly" which I believe will eventually destroy thousands of sound churches and which will break down Godly walls between truth and error.
There are also those who are heretics deceiving the masses. Those ministers who deny the infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible, the Virgin Birth, the Lordship of Christ, the Blood Atonement, the Bodily Resurrection, the Eternal Sonship, ect. These I reject and alert others of their heresy.
The Bible commands men of God to judge the teaching and ministries of other men in order to protect the truth and the people of God. We are to mark those who cause divisions contrary to apostolic doctrine (Romans 16:17). This requires a careful examination and evaluation. The believers in the church at Corinth were instructed to judge one another (1 Cor. 14:29). That principle applies also to ministries outside of one’s own church, especially to very "public ministries" which influence vast numbers of people.
Paul rebuked Peter publicly for his hypocrisy. (Gal. 2:11-14). Was Paul "attacking" Peter? Of course not. He was bringing him back to the truth.
Truth is more important than unity because without truth men cannot be saved and walk in the will of God. It is truth, not unity, which is the light in this dark world. John said, "I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth" (3 John 1:4). God tells me to mark and avoid those who teach contrary to the apostolic doctrine (Romans 16:17). He tells me to earnestly CONTEND for the faith once delivered to the saints (Jude 1:3). "Contend" means to strive, to fight. Trouble and striving are not wrong in themselves. The Lord Jesus Christ stirred up much trouble, as did all of the Old Testament prophets and New Testament apostles. Trouble is not wrong, when it is caused by contending for the truth. . The Lord God has put a love in my heart for His Truth. He imparted to me the spirit described by King David: "Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way" (Psalm 119:128).
Ever since I was saved I have had something within me that has stirred me up for the Truth. I believe that Something is the Holy Spirit. One of His names is the Spirit of TRUTH (John 14:17; 15:26; 16:13 )
Matt 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. (KJV)
This verse is directed to those whose brother offended them "personally". It does not tell us how to handle "public hypocrisy or false teachings".
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. (KJV)
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: (KJV)
Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. (KJV)
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. (KJV)
Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; (KJV)
I cannot stop their mouths but I can try and warn as many people as I can.
Sincerely,
Andy Neckar
Editor, Christian News & Views
I've been there too!
I mean, I'd rather be warm enough to take a nap... ;-) Do you think they're trying to keep you all awake?
The comment about Obama in the pulpit...
I was thinking that the part you quoted was actually your writing. It helps to vary the text style so we can tell. (not just put lots of spaces. Or just add 'quotes' around the quoted text.
The obama line was great though.
I'll try to do better in the future. :>)
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