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Jews Revive the Sanhedrin with Plans for a Passover Sacrifice
beliefnet ^ | Deborah Pardo-Kaplan

Posted on 03/22/2007 9:54:02 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

In a donated apartment concealed among the narrow streets of the Jerusalem suburb of Nahlaot, 13 Orthodox Jewish men meet every Tuesday to debate matters of Jewish law. They are the management team of a larger developing Sanhedrin, or religious court, in Israel.

And they plan to sacrifice sheep on the Temple Mount on the day before or one month after Passover, which starts at sundown April 2. Either date is permissible under Jewish law. "If the government will not resist," said Rabbi Dov Stein, 68, a member of the group, "we will do it."

As Easter eclipses the last days of Passover this year, Christians will focus again on the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus. The Sanhedrin, meanwhile, will literally attempt to resurrect the Passover sacrifice of old.

For these Jews, the sacrificial Passover offering is not their redemption per se, yet it is vital to the process.

The Passover sacrifice is the latest of more than 40 legal decisions issued by the modern Sanhedrin. Seventy-one Orthodox men revived the court more than two years ago in the city of Tiberius, the same geographical spot they believe marked the final days of the Sanhedrin a few hundred years after the time of Jesus.

In antiquity, the Sanhedrin determined Jewish practice. It now rules on political and religious issues and ultimately sees itself as an alternative to the secular Supreme Court of Israel. It hopes to impose Jewish law on the Jewish people and the seven "Noahide" laws -- prohibitions on theft, murder, blasphemy and others, based on Jewish teaching -- on Gentile nations.

"We want all the world," Stein said, "to walk with God."

Descriptions of the Sanhedrin can be found in Jewish legal writings and the New Testament. The Gospels say Jesus was brought before the Sanhedrin so its members could assess his messianic claims. This current Sanhedrin also sees as one of its goals to evaluate any potential messianic contender. "There is no redemption without the Sanhedrin," said Stein. "We are building the opportunity for a king (messiah)."

Some Orthodox Jews see the Passover sacrifice on Jerusalem's Temple Mount -- one of the most disputed pieces of real estate on the planet -- as key to quickening redemption.

The Sanhedrin bought a herd of 12 sheep -- 110-150 pounds each -- from a farm in southern Israel. Anyone wanting to eat of the sacrifice can pay seven shekels ($1.67) for an 8-10 gram slice, the minimum required by Jewish law, Stein said. The group is hoping to collect 30,000 signatures through its Web site to prove its influence to the Israeli authorities, and gain access to the Temple Mount area.

Some members of the Sanhedrin are a bit more cautious.

"The Passover plans are just preparation," said Hillel Weiss, a professor of Hebrew literature at Bar Ilan University. "Not everyone is in favor of it."

The Passover sacrifice will draw the attention of some religious Jews as well as evangelical Christians who see both the restoration of the Sanhedrin and sacrifice as part of end-times prophecy. Other Orthodox Jews want to distance themselves from this group, which they consider extremist.

Religious Zionists, such as Israeli settlers, serve as the main audience for the new Sanhedrin, said Mordechai Inbari, 37, an Israeli who teaches at the University of Florida. Inbari sat in on some of the Sanhedrin meetings last year for his doctoral research.

Zionists perceive Israel as in the process of redemption, Inbari said, but most see the Temple's reconstruction with its sacrificial system as the last stage, occurring only after a widespread repentance in which all Jews turn religious. "But the extremists see it as going hand in hand," he said.

Hila Lipnick, a 28-year-old Orthodox woman who lives in Cambridge, Mass., used to live in Jerusalem and traveled daily to Gush Etzion, a settlement in the West Bank, for school. While she believes in the eventual rebuilding of the Temple, she is unsure about sacrifice.

"I can't see rivers of blood going all over Jerusalem," she said, "and society just accepting it."

In order for the Sanhedrin to proceed with the sacrifice, they would need to build an altar on the Temple Mount, at least the size of 1 amah (21 inches) by 1 amah, Stein said. They would slaughter the sheep and sprinkle the blood towards the altar, said Hillel Weiss. The meat would then be taken from the Temple area and cooked on a special oven and given to families to eat.

Some leaders in the Jewish community question not only the renewal of sacrifice without a Temple, but the validity of the Sanhedrin itself.

"They are a self-selected group," said Michael J. Broyde, an Orthodox rabbi who sits on the Rabbinical Court of America. "And they have no more and no less authority than any other self-selected group of rabbis."

While many Jews are either ambivalent or hostile toward the Sanhedrin and other Temple-related groups, some evangelicals support these projects. They get excited when they perceive the Jewish people fulfilling what they view as part of future prophecy, said Randall Price, an evangelical professor and author of four books about the Temple. "Then they think we're getting closer to that being a reality," he said.

The Sanhedrin considers the Passover sacrifice equal in importance to circumcision, since it is the first collective commandment given to the Jewish people.

"Since the Passover sacrifice is an eternal commandment, we should do it," said Rabbi Yeshayahu Hollander, an English spokesperson for the group. Those who do not observe the sacrifice, he said, will be cut off from the Jewish people.

"If we have psychological inhibitions, it is our duty to educate ourselves, to overcome the inhibitions," Hollander said. "This is part of our redemption. An essential part."


TOPICS: Judaism; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Worship
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See earlier story here: Present-day Sanhedrin court seeks to revive ancient Temple rituals (PETA Alert!)
1 posted on 03/22/2007 9:54:06 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

Prophecy fulfilled before our eyes. I don't know how it is going to happen but the Temple will be rebuilt. But the final sacrifice was given 2,000 years ago. The Jews won't realize it until He returns.
BTW, Ezekiel gives the measurements and description of this Temple.


2 posted on 03/22/2007 10:01:56 AM PDT by BigFinn (AlGore: Carbonista)
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To: Alex Murphy

Rabid Muslims will kill them all if they try this. It'd be suicide.


3 posted on 03/22/2007 10:24:06 AM PDT by T.Smith
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To: Alex Murphy

it ain't goin' to happen. The Waqf will launch a wave of rock throwers on the plaza below that hasnt been seen before. the very fact that the majority of Jews do not support this body is the best evidence of its lack of authority not to mention the ban on even ascending to Har HaBayis at this time for fear of descration and impurities.


4 posted on 03/22/2007 10:24:57 AM PDT by APRPEH (Hillary probably wouldn't approve, but I can live with that....)
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To: Alex Murphy

Hebrews 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.


5 posted on 03/22/2007 10:42:16 AM PDT by jkl1122
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To: Alex Murphy
My problem with the so-called "sanhedrion" is not that they are "extremists" (what's wrong with being an extremist?). It is that they are allied with a group that promotes ecumenicism and has members/affiliates who are all over the map religiously. How in the world does one square such leftist ecumenism with the Holy Temple to the One G-d Who will have no rival???
6 posted on 03/22/2007 11:12:08 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vayiqra' 'el Mosheh; vaydabber HaShem 'elayv me'Ohel Mo`ed le'mor.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

They could begin by recognizing their Messiah out of the line of David. ;-`


7 posted on 03/22/2007 11:13:51 AM PDT by unspun (What do you think? Please think, before you answer.)
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To: Alex Murphy
The Sanhedrin considers the Passover sacrifice equal in importance to circumcision, since it is the first collective commandment given to the Jewish people.

Actually it was the sanctification of the New Moon.

8 posted on 03/22/2007 11:14:36 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vayiqra' 'el Mosheh; vaydabber HaShem 'elayv me'Ohel Mo`ed le'mor.)
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To: unspun
They could begin by recognizing their Messiah out of the line of David. ;-`

[sarcasm]Of course. It's so obvious! I mean, the Bible (ie, the "new testament") says J*sus is the messiah, and since it's "self-evident" that the "new testament" is part of the Bible (after all, isn't it that what Thomas Nelson says?) that's all the proof one needs![/sarcasm]

9 posted on 03/22/2007 11:17:13 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vayiqra' 'el Mosheh; vaydabber HaShem 'elayv me'Ohel Mo`ed le'mor.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

So said many eyewitnesses of the resurrection. So said the prophets. So say those who encounter Him to this moment.

But go ahead and sacrifice animals again, if you need. They won't take away your sin.

I say that with no sarcasm, nor ill-will.


10 posted on 03/22/2007 11:21:00 AM PDT by unspun (What do you think? Please think, before you answer.)
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To: unspun

These poor souls. The day they bow down and confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord will be a day too late. If they would only read their own prophets' words, and see that Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies and signs that they are still looking for. They are blinded by their religion. Religion prevents so many people from becoming Christians...


11 posted on 03/22/2007 5:55:22 PM PDT by Hambone02
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To: unspun

But it's more than that. Who cares if it (animal sacrifice) removes "sin" or not. That's their business. What I want to know is, why would they want to re-establish an act that people only see in third world hell-holes. There's something unsettling about having "heave offerings" in modern religious services. Brings to mind actions of cults like Santeria and Voodoo.


12 posted on 03/22/2007 7:09:54 PM PDT by John Philoponus
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To: BigFinn; Alex Murphy
Prophecy fulfilled before our eyes.

Perhaps ... it just ain't Bible prophecy.

13 posted on 03/22/2007 7:31:11 PM PDT by topcat54
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: ps2
All is occuring as revealed IN THE BIBLE

Lots of speculation and little careful Bible exegesis. This is all being driven by a bunch of Jews who are looking for a "Messiah" quite different from the one revelaed in the infallible Word of God.

No one should take these actions seriously except that they provoke geo-political conflict and ought to be condemned.

"But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool." (Heb. 10:12)

The true sacrifice has been made. Anything done today is an abomination. The Jews need to come to Christ today, before they die in their sin and are counted among His enemies.

15 posted on 03/25/2007 11:32:41 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: Alex Murphy
[29] That He hungered we read in Mark:

"When they were come from Bethany," Jesus "hungered: and, seeing a fig-tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: but when he came to it he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the time of figs. Therefore he said unto it, Let no man eat fruit of thee for ever. And the disciples, in the morning, as they passed by, saw the fig-tree dried up from the roots" (xi. 12, 14-20; Matt. xxi. 19, 20).

He who does not know that all things of the Word contain a spiritual sense, may think that the Lord did this to the fig-tree from indignation because He hungered but by the fig-tree here is not meant a fig-tree, but the church as to natural good, and specifically the Jewish Church. That there was not any natural good therein, because nothing spiritual, but only some truths from the sense of the letter of the Word, is signified by, Jesus seeing a fig-tree afar off having leaves, came if haply He might find anything thereon; but when He had come to it He found nothing but leaves. Leaves signify the truths of the sense of the letter of the Word. That with that nation there would nowhere be any natural good of the church, because they are in dense falsities and in evil loves, is signified by Jesus saying, "Let no man eat fruit of thee for ever," and by the fig-tree being dried up from the roots. It is also said, that it was not the time of figs, and thereby is meant that the church was not yet commenced. That the beginning of a new church is meant by the fig-tree, is evident from the Lord's words (in Matt. xxiv. 32, 33; Mark xiii. 28, 219; and in Luke xxi. 28-31). From these considerations it is evident what is there signified by hungering. (That the fig-tree signifies the natural good of the church, see n. 217, 4231, 5113; and that the leaves signify the truths of the natural man, see above (n. 109).)

Zechariah 11:4 Thus says the Lord my God, "Feed the flock for slaughter, 5 whose owners slaughter them and feel no guilt; those who sell them say, 'Blessed be the Lord, for I am rich'; and their shepherds do not pity them. 6 For I will no longer pity the inhabitants of the land," says the Lord. "But indeed I will give everyone into his neighbor's hand and into the hand of his king. They shall attack the land, and I will not deliver them from their hand." 7 So I fed the flock for slaughter, in particular the poor of the flock.* I took for myself two staffs: the one I called Beauty,+ and the other I called Bonds;** and I fed the flock.

16 posted on 03/25/2007 12:53:39 PM PDT by DaveMSmith ("Heaven is the only basis for our continued existence".)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: ps2
The Bible also makes it clear that the Jews will look upon Him whom they have pierecd and mourn

But the verse in question does not tell us explicitly what will be the result of that mourning. I submit that by the time they see Christ "face to face" their fate will be sealed. Unless they are already "in Christ", they will be mourning because they are about to be consigned to the outer darkness by the divine Judge of the universe.

God has not forsaken His people, the people he foreknew

Indeed, that is Paul's entire argument in Romans 9-11. The elect remnant of Israel was being saved and is continuing to be saved thought this age. Paul was part of that elect remnant. God's election stands as Jews are regrafted into the root by faith in Jesus Christ, the faith of our father Abraham.

18 posted on 03/25/2007 3:48:03 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; BigFinn; Alex Murphy
"Prophecy fulfilled before our eyes.
Perhaps ... it just ain't Bible prophecy."

Not for anti-semite, Israel replacing amils anyway. They reject all prophecy that gets in their anti-semitic way.

19 posted on 03/25/2007 3:54:33 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; unspun
[sarcasm]Of course. It's so obvious! I mean, the Bible (ie, the "new testament") says J*sus is the messiah, and since it's "self-evident" that the "new testament" is part of the Bible (after all, isn't it that what Thomas Nelson says?) that's all the proof one needs![/sarcasm]

I wasn't aware that you also ripped the book of Isaiah out of your Bible too.

20 posted on 03/25/2007 3:58:48 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: Alex Murphy
In denial.

21 posted on 03/25/2007 4:31:36 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: topcat54; editor-surveyor
Not for anti-semite, Israel replacing amils anyway. They reject all prophecy that gets in their anti-semitic way.

Good thing we're both Postmil, huh topcat? :)

22 posted on 03/25/2007 5:38:35 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy; editor-surveyor

Whenever you hear the phrase "anti-semite" in an eschatology discussion you can be sure the user has run out of anything important to say.


23 posted on 03/25/2007 6:05:00 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: BigFinn
The temple of Ezekiel?

Please explain this statement? The reason I ask is you would have to level Jerusalem to make room for this temple since it will be about 8x6 miles large not counting the courtyards

24 posted on 03/25/2007 6:11:34 PM PDT by John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?
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To: topcat54; Alex Murphy
"Whenever you hear the phrase "anti-semite" in an eschatology discussion you can be sure the user has run out of anything important to say."

Important by your standards, I assume. Israel will always be the seed of Jacob. Replacement theology can have no basis but anti-semitism. Gentiles have never been part of the seed of Jacob, thus cannot be one of the sticks that are rejoined. Unless you are a part of the house of Ephraim, being joined to Judah will still not make you Israel.

Deny prophecy all you wish; it's between you and the Lord.

25 posted on 03/25/2007 6:31:07 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: topcat54
Whenever you hear the phrase "anti-semite" in an eschatology discussion you can be sure the user has run out of anything important to say.

Hmmm....maybe this calls for an expansion of Irving's Law....

26 posted on 03/25/2007 6:32:29 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?; BigFinn
"Please explain this statement? The reason I ask is you would have to level Jerusalem to make room for this temple since it will be about 8x6 miles large not counting the courtyards"

The temple of Ezekiel is not to be built by men, so why worry about what has to be leveled? Do you suspect that a few Syrian missles and bombs might level Jerusalem?

27 posted on 03/25/2007 6:35:30 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: editor-surveyor
that was not my intent. as stated in the post by BigFin

Prophecy fulfilled before our eyes. I don't know how it is going to happen but the Temple will be rebuilt. But the final sacrifice was given 2,000 years ago. The Jews won't realize it until He returns. BTW, Ezekiel gives the measurements and description of this Temple.

My point was that the Temple in Ezekiel will not fit on the temple mount.

And why are you so accusing?

28 posted on 03/25/2007 6:46:50 PM PDT by John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?

Of what did I accuse you?


29 posted on 03/25/2007 6:49:05 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?

You are extremely touchy; maybe you might ask that question to the mirror?


31 posted on 03/25/2007 6:57:02 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Most interesting.


32 posted on 03/25/2007 7:01:24 PM PDT by Ciexyz (Is the American voter smarter than a fifth grader?)
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To: editor-surveyor
To begin with I was asking BigFin the question and not you.

Your comment that one is not to worry about what needs to be leaved so the temple can be built is rather callous. The end justifies the means?

33 posted on 03/25/2007 7:08:26 PM PDT by John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?

Callous in what way? The Lord told us that he was the one bringing the wars; was he callous?


When you post on a thread, you have to accept the fact that all can see your post, and comment on its strengths and weaknesses.


34 posted on 03/25/2007 7:14:24 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: Alex Murphy; editor-surveyor

The sad fact is that such attempts only obfuscates and denegrate real instances of anti-semitism which is a hated of Jews and all things Jewish.

Christians who understand the true nature of the new covenant and takes eriously the message of Paul that "there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him" are hardly anti-semites. Only the ignorant or dishonorable person would make such a charge.

The sad fact is that these alleged "literalists" fail to see the literal reality of the new covenant as it was given to the true Israel of God, the sons of Abraham by virture of faith in Jesus Christ. "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." A person who trusts in Christ today is no less apart of Israel and heirs to the blessing than any who claim to be an ethnic Jews.

What these poor folks fail to realize is that its not about "replacement", but it is all about expansion of the kingdom to include the entire world in the blessings of Christ Jesus to His elect people. But they cannot see that because they are stuck in a carnal world of expectation for the very "messiah" that the qst century apostate Jews wanted but Jesus said was not coming.


35 posted on 03/25/2007 7:30:31 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54

Enough of your disneyland theology.

Are there any other parts of God's word that need to be expurgated? Your theology fails all prophecy tests; it's imaginary from top to bottom.


36 posted on 03/25/2007 8:11:57 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?

Knock it off!


37 posted on 03/25/2007 8:25:29 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: editor-surveyor; Alex Murphy

You can do better than name calling, can't you? Open your Bible. Read the New Testament.

Your problem is the same as the first century Jews who failed to see Chist as the fulfillment of all the OT prophecies (Luke 24:27,44), and kept looking for a geo-political ruler to help deal with the Romans. You are expecting a carnal king. Not the One who is presently seated on David's throne in heaven subduing the nations (Acts 2:30; 1 Cor. 15:25).

Do you have any NT passages to support your theories? That's where the apostate Jews fell down on the job. They failed to see Christ as the fulfillment of the promises to Israel as the True Seed of Abraham (Gal. 3:16). Modern literalists have much the same problem.


38 posted on 03/25/2007 8:27:56 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54

Great strawman building, and for the NT nonsense, God's word is one word.


39 posted on 03/25/2007 9:11:01 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Great strawman building, and for the NT nonsense, God's word is one word.

It's been a long while since you and I traded posts - could you refresh me as to your particular theological persuasion?

40 posted on 03/25/2007 9:17:15 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?

I answer this the same way I would answer if you asked about the New Jerusalem, the City of God, described in Revelation. This city comes down out of Heaven to planet Earth. It is approximately !,500 miles x 1,500 miles x 1,500 miles. A giganto cube. Only God knows how this will happen. Remember all things are possible with God. Ezekiel's vision of the temple is on Mt. Zion that the Bible describes as a high plateau and the rest of Israel in on a level plain. Man, I don't know how he's going to do this but it's all described in the Bible. Personally, I think when this all happens the Earth will be a very different place that what we now know.


41 posted on 03/25/2007 9:27:54 PM PDT by BigFinn (Have you paid your 'indulgence' to the Carbonista?)
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To: BigFinn
I am a bit confused in your first post you stated that

Prophecy fulfilled before our eyes. I don't know how it is going to happen but the Temple will be rebuilt. But the final sacrifice was given 2,000 years ago. The Jews won't realize it until He returns. BTW, Ezekiel gives the measurements and description of this Temple.

1.Prophecy is being fulfilled and that the temple will be rebuilt.

2. Then Ezekiel give the measurements and description of this temple.

3. Then I guess the question is Ezekiel's temple built before the Millennium or after? If it is built before the millennium there is no provision for animal scarifies so the whole point of the Sanhedrin getting the passover sacrifice ready it would not be given in Ezekiel's temple.

So is there two temples?

42 posted on 03/26/2007 12:59:25 AM PDT by John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?
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To: editor-surveyor; Alex Murphy

Sorry if you think it is a strawman, but the fact remains that literalist futurists suffer from the same problem that plagued the apostate Jews of Jesus days. You suffer from the same sort of chiliasm that got them in trouble.

Christ is reigning over the nations from the throne of His father David in heaven. He is conquering and will bring all things into submission by the second advent, when He will deliver up the kingdom tot he Father. That is the reality of the NT take on all those OT prophecies about Messiah. At least that is how Jesus and His apostles spiritually interpreted the prophecies. None of them viewed the OT propehcies about Christ advent and reign with the same set of presuppositions as you so-called literalists.


43 posted on 03/26/2007 6:15:42 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?; BigFinn; Alex Murphy
I don't know how it is going to happen but the Temple will be rebuilt. ... 1.Prophecy is being fulfilled and that the temple will be rebuilt.

If you don't know how it will be rebuilt, or have any other details, then how exactly do you know whether these present humanist efforts have anything to do with Bible prophecy being fulfilled?

It makes no logical or biblical sense. Men have been enamored with these sorts of guessing games for centuries, and all have failed to predict "current events" as having anything to do with the Bible. Just ask your theological cousins, the Millerites.

44 posted on 03/26/2007 6:27:37 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54

TopCat54 I hope you are speaking to BigFin? Because I have never said that the temple will be rebuilt before Christ returns. All of my questions have been rhetorical towards BigFin.


45 posted on 03/26/2007 10:01:29 AM PDT by John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?; BigFinn; Alex Murphy
Because I have never said that the temple will be rebuilt before Christ returns.

The temple will not be rebuilt, period.

After Christ returns the new Jerusalem is established in final form and we are told, "But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." Ezekiel's temple was a spiritual picture of the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ during this age as He has attoned once for all for the sins of His people (Matt. 1:21).

Even now there is no earthly temple because the true temple is in heaven (where it always was; Heb. 8:5). We inhabit the new Jerusalem, the heavenly Mt. Zion (Heb. 12:22). The earthly temple was just a temporary pattern to point the Old Covenant church to Christ. One He appeared the temple no longer served a useful purpose, and so God destroyed it so the people would not confuse the temporal/carnal with the eternal/spiritual.

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-22)
Most of the church, including the 1st century Jewish believers, understands this fact. A segment of the premil camp does not, and so they still look for a future temple just like the apostate Jews who have missed the coming of the Messiah for the last 2000 years.
46 posted on 03/26/2007 10:17:09 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
Eze 40:2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which [was] as the frame of a city on the south.

God brings Ezekiel, by vision, into the LAND OF ISRAEL. And he shows him the temple that will be built. When it is, it does not say. Could very well be during the Millenium because other passages speak of the nations of the earth coming to this place to worship the LORD.

You have a prederist view. The prederist declares every passage that is unexplained as spiritual and an allegory. They also do not interpret the bible literally, they believe all promises to Israel have been transferred to the Church (replacement theology), along with many other liberal denominations, and that God is finished with the nation of Israel.

God is not finished with Israel. They are the apple of his eye, no matter how rebellious and rotten they are. There is always a remnant. And as for the Temple... we will see. But one thing we do agree. That Christ is the Messiah and the author of our salvation. He is the bridge between man and God. There is no other way to God. Amen.

47 posted on 03/26/2007 11:34:20 AM PDT by BigFinn (Have you paid your 'indulgence' to the Carbonista?)
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To: BigFinn
They also do not interpret the bible literally, they believe all promises to Israel have been transferred to the Church (replacement theology), along with many other liberal denominations, and that God is finished with the nation of Israel.

Yo, BigFinn, I know you got that from somebody's book or newsletter or radio program cuz you didn't get it from reading any "prederist" (sic).

If you want to read what the Bible (all the Bible, not the stunted OT-only Bible of the dispensationalists) really teaches about Israel, I suggest you begin with some of the articles on this site: Israel / Judaism. You can also read Expansion, Not Replacement by a minister devoted to Jewish evangelism.

A helpful book would be Israel of God by O. Palmer Robertson

Be prepared to have your spiritual eyes opened to the reality and true makeup of Christ's kingdom. Otherwise, if you choose you can just muddle along with the discredited theology of Darby and Scofield.

48 posted on 03/26/2007 12:12:59 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; BigFinn

Lol. Ya he should muddle along with those who finally found a warm and fuzzy replacement word for replacement theology. "expansion" lol. Those bigots are really sneaky.


49 posted on 03/26/2007 12:27:48 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; BigFinn

I guess it feels like "replacement" if you are still on the outside looking into the kingdom.

The good news is that Christ's forgiveness and restoration is available to all who call upon Him, Jews and gentile, without any racial considerations.

"... glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God." (Roms 2:10,11)


50 posted on 03/26/2007 1:04:10 PM PDT by topcat54
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