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The Reality of Romanism
The Riddleblog ^ | May 10, 2007 | Kim Riddlebarger

Posted on 05/17/2007 10:08:04 AM PDT by Gamecock

Reading Francis Beckwith's interview with David Neff in Christianity Today, reminded me of how idyllic the Roman church can seem in the minds of those who embrace it (Click here: Q&A: Francis Beckwith | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction).

But then this news report appeared today which gives a much different picture of the supposed glories of Romanism (Click here: Pope to canonize first Brazilian saint - Yahoo! News).

All discussion of justification, the authority of Scripture, and reciting the Creed aside, the Pope is heading to Brazil to canonize Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao, a Franciscan monk who is credited with 5000 miraculous healings. Over 1 million people are expected to be in attendance. The healings supposedly come as a result of swallowing rice paper pills prepared by the monk over two hundred years ago. According to the AP news report . . .

"The Vatican has officially certified the medical cases of two Brazilian women as divinely inspired miracles that justify the sainthood of Galvao. Both of these women spoke of their faith with The Associated Press, claiming that their children would not be alive today were it not for the tiny rice-paper pills that Friar Galvao handed out two centuries ago.

Although the friar died in 1822, the tradition is carried on by Brazilian nuns who toil in the Sao Paulo monastery where Galvao is buried, preparing thousands of the Tic Tac-sized pills distributed free each day to people seeking cures for all manner of ailments. Each one is inscribed with a prayer in Latin: `After birth, the Virgin remained intact. Mother of God, intercede on our behalf.'

Sandra Grossi de Almeida, 37, is one such believer. She had a uterine malformation that should have made it impossible for her to carry a child for more than four months. But in 1999, after taking the pills, she gave birth to Enzo, now 7. `I have faith," Grossi said, pointing to her son. I believe in God, and the proof is right here.'

Nearly 10 years before that, Daniela Cristina da Silva, then 4 years old, entered a coma and suffered a heart attack after liver and kidney complications from hepatitis A. `The doctors told me to pray because only a miracle could save her,' Daniela's mother Jacyra said recently. `My sister sneaked into the intensive care unit and forced my daughter to swallow Friar Galvao's pills.'"

So, if you "return home" to Rome, you get the whole ball of wax, including the beatification of saints who give out Tic-Tac size rice-paper pills which supposedly heal. And Pope Benedict XVI will be there to bless it all.

By the way, confessional Protestants affirm the historical evangelical doctrine of justification by grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone, and the full authority of Scripture. And yes, we even recite the Creed every Lord's Day and we use a biblical-text based liturgy which is quite similar to that described by Justin Martyr in the second century.

Too bad Dr. Beckwith didn't consider a confessional Protestant church before embracing Romanism. Now he's stuck with Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao and his rice-paper healing pills.


TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: anticatholic; catholic; catholiclist; kimriddlebarger; papists; popish; rcc; riddlebarger; romancatholic; romanish; romanism; saywhat; sneering
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To: Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; dangus

Since there’s a placebo effect, I guess we better have a few placebo saints.

They’re not really effective, but the recipient thinks they are, so who gives a rip.

They are in the same class as “near beer.”

For the record, though, 2 out of 200 is pretty low even for the placebo effect.


141 posted on 05/17/2007 2:10:36 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: Claud
So where does Irenaeus get off saying that it is a matter of necessity...necessity...that all churches everywhere agree with the Church of Rome.

The CONTEXT of Irenaeus comment was in opposition to the heretics he was addressing, and AT THAT TIME, the bishop of Rome was standing for orthodox doctrine. Irenaeus was NOT saying that everyone be submissive to the bishop of Rome as the exclusive, supreme ruler of the universal church at all. Rome has twisted Irenaeus to fit it's later claims of exclusive supremacy. It had a historical context exclusive to that time, and meant that the orthodoxy defended in Rome at that time was to be followed. Irenaeus never meant that the bishop of Rome was to be the supreme ruler, to whom everyone at all times in history are to submit to no matter what.

142 posted on 05/17/2007 2:11:52 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: Claud
A dupe of Zephyrinus and Callixtus, was he? A Monarchian modalist was he?

Your inability to restrain yourself is leading you into making ridiculous comments.

143 posted on 05/17/2007 2:13:57 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: George W. Bush
It reminds you of all those same people being taught to revere and pray to Saint Christopher for safety in travel and then Rome finally acknowledged there was and is no Saint Christopher.

Rome did nothing of the sort. He was only taken off the universal calendar of feast days, along with some other saints. He is still on local calendars, and he is still a saint, historical questions surrounding his life notwithstanding.

144 posted on 05/17/2007 2:16:23 PM PDT by Claud
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To: blue-duncan

Can you sing that? Perhaps with some guitar accompaniment?


145 posted on 05/17/2007 2:16:57 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: irishtenor

Great post. It gives me strength. 8~)


146 posted on 05/17/2007 2:18:13 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Claud
So where does Irenaeus get off saying that it is a matter of necessity...necessity...that all churches everywhere agree with the Church of Rome. Irenaeus who was never a Roman pontiff but just a lowly bishop of Gaul in around A.D. 170.

Since Irenaeus was not a pope (since such cannot exist), the argument that the bishop of Rome is a pope is strictly non sequitur (aha, you probably didn't expect that I know how sprinkling some Latin makes you guys go all cow-eyed for some reason).

Irenaeus instructing his priests and deacons to be in agreement with Rome's policy in the disputes of the day does not establish an eternal and binding claim to the supremacy of Rome's bishop in all matters and his elevation as the spiritual dictator of all mankind.

One would think some of you would finally tire of this medieval totalitarian religion despite its pretty rituals and arts. In all of the Christian era, Rome's remains the only exercise of organized religion in the West which is comparable to that of militant Islam who is still quite enthused over chopping off body parts, public massacres, torture, etc. Say, you don't suppose you could license your patents for public burnings at the stake to them? Sounds lucrative.
147 posted on 05/17/2007 2:19:32 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Claud
As my Scottish grandfather would say...

"Yep."

8~)

148 posted on 05/17/2007 2:21:41 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg
Depends on the time the pub closed.

Exactly!

149 posted on 05/17/2007 2:22:23 PM PDT by AlbionGirl
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To: Risky-Riskerdo
Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre-eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.
Where do you see the expiration date on this passage? Where do you see anything that indicates that it is a temporary condition...and that the bishop of Rome. And if you're right, that it only holds as long as the bishop of Rome is orthodox, then you are by that very fact saying that *SOMEONE* has to be judging the bishop of Rome heretical. So who did....in all the time you are talking about. What council? What Jean Calvin-like genius got up and said "you are heretical", and we anathematize you?

You entirely miss the point of this passage, which is that the *Bishop of Rome* judges what is heretical....not as long as he just happens to be orthodox, but because the apostolic tradition of Peter and Paul has been preserved there.

150 posted on 05/17/2007 2:25:48 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

“Can you sing that? Perhaps with some guitar accompaniment?”

Did you see the thing about the miracle? I took it as a sign that the guitar is between the Lord and me and I’m to keep hiding it under a bushel, whatever that is.


151 posted on 05/17/2007 2:29:09 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: Risky-Riskerdo; xzins; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; HarleyD
unless you liked listening to a bunch of smart alex poli sci students drinking beer and cracking jokes.

So that's where the Friday Neeners Caucus got it from.

152 posted on 05/17/2007 2:29:10 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: blue-duncan; AlbionGirl
Pubs close?

(I don't know where these lines are coming from. My apron needs starching - if I had an apron.)

153 posted on 05/17/2007 2:36:31 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: George W. Bush
One would think some of you would finally tire of this medieval totalitarian religion despite its pretty rituals and arts.

You'll wrest it out of our cold dead fingers...because it is no "totalitarian religion" but the very Church of Christ Jesus, the spotless Bride, the very Body of Christ....which only feels totalitarian to those who cannot abide it. "He who hears you, hears me".

I say again...Irenaeus is clear that Rome is the *benchmark* for orthodoxy, not a useful and temporaray ally in the struggle. It is a matter of *necessity* that all churches everywhere agree with this church.

154 posted on 05/17/2007 2:36:55 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Risky-Riskerdo; xzins; P-Marlowe; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; HarleyD

“So that’s where the Friday Neeners Caucus got it from.”

This is as good a thread as any to high jack and I’m going to be traveling tomorrow so here is my contribution to the Friday Caucus:

Just because someone doesn’t love you the way you want them to, doesn’t mean they don’t love you with all they have.

Jim and Edna were both patients in a mental hospital. One day while they were walking past the hospital swimming pool, Jim suddenly jumped into the deep end. He sank to the bottom of the pool and stayed there. Edna promptly jumped in to save him. She swam to the bottom and pulled Jim out.

When the Head Nurse Director became aware of Edna’s heroic act she immediately ordered her to be discharged from the hospital, as she now considered her to be mentally stable.

When she went to tell Edna the news she said, “Edna, I have good news and bad news. The good news is you’re being discharged, since you were able to rationally respond to a crisis by jumping in and saving the life of the person you love, I have concluded that your act displays sound mindedness. The bad news is, Jim, hung himself in the bathroom with his bathrobe belt right after you saved him. I am so sorry, but he’s dead.”

Edna replied, “He didn’t hang himself, I put him up there to dry.... How soon can I go home?”


155 posted on 05/17/2007 2:40:10 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: Claud; George W. Bush

That’s even sillier. If he doesn’t exist, why is he on any calendar other than ones like “The Simpsons” or “The Muppets?”


156 posted on 05/17/2007 2:40:49 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Risky-Riskerdo; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; Gamecock; HarleyD
Not that if would have done any good, unless you liked listening to a bunch of smart alex poli sci students drinking beer and cracking jokes. hehehe

That's a lie! I was never a poli sci student, I don't drink beer, and I swear that I was nowhere near the Cuban Embassy in Stockholm that whole time!

157 posted on 05/17/2007 2:40:56 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (FR Member Alex Murphy: Declared Anathema By The Council Of Trent)
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To: blue-duncan
I’m to keep hiding it under a bushel, whatever that is.

I don't know either, but I'm told it goes with a "peck", whatever that is.

158 posted on 05/17/2007 2:42:34 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (FR Member Alex Murphy: Declared Anathema By The Council Of Trent)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan
Pubs close?

I'm not sayin' nothin' 'bout drinkin' and the Irish or the Scottish here at all...

Did you know that when digging the Erie canal and following a day's work (12 to 14 hours), the Irish used to arrange boxing matches with each other?

Is that a different breed, or what? Irish men...

Then, of course, we have the Italian Cardinals who when transporting the coffin of Alexander VI, got into some little tiff (that's hard to believe, isn't it?), dropped the casket and started sword fighting.

159 posted on 05/17/2007 2:50:58 PM PDT by AlbionGirl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; George W. Bush; Claud
Rome finally acknowledged there was and is no Saint Christopher. He was nothing but a legend.

Claud is correct. Rome has "acknowledged" nothing of the sort.

And the Orthodox revere St. Christopher, as well.

160 posted on 05/17/2007 2:52:54 PM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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