Posted on 05/17/2007 10:08:04 AM PDT by Gamecock
Reading Francis Beckwith's interview with David Neff in Christianity Today, reminded me of how idyllic the Roman church can seem in the minds of those who embrace it (Click here: Q&A: Francis Beckwith | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction).
But then this news report appeared today which gives a much different picture of the supposed glories of Romanism (Click here: Pope to canonize first Brazilian saint - Yahoo! News).
All discussion of justification, the authority of Scripture, and reciting the Creed aside, the Pope is heading to Brazil to canonize Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao, a Franciscan monk who is credited with 5000 miraculous healings. Over 1 million people are expected to be in attendance. The healings supposedly come as a result of swallowing rice paper pills prepared by the monk over two hundred years ago. According to the AP news report . . .
"The Vatican has officially certified the medical cases of two Brazilian women as divinely inspired miracles that justify the sainthood of Galvao. Both of these women spoke of their faith with The Associated Press, claiming that their children would not be alive today were it not for the tiny rice-paper pills that Friar Galvao handed out two centuries ago.
Although the friar died in 1822, the tradition is carried on by Brazilian nuns who toil in the Sao Paulo monastery where Galvao is buried, preparing thousands of the Tic Tac-sized pills distributed free each day to people seeking cures for all manner of ailments. Each one is inscribed with a prayer in Latin: `After birth, the Virgin remained intact. Mother of God, intercede on our behalf.'
Sandra Grossi de Almeida, 37, is one such believer. She had a uterine malformation that should have made it impossible for her to carry a child for more than four months. But in 1999, after taking the pills, she gave birth to Enzo, now 7. `I have faith," Grossi said, pointing to her son. I believe in God, and the proof is right here.'
Nearly 10 years before that, Daniela Cristina da Silva, then 4 years old, entered a coma and suffered a heart attack after liver and kidney complications from hepatitis A. `The doctors told me to pray because only a miracle could save her,' Daniela's mother Jacyra said recently. `My sister sneaked into the intensive care unit and forced my daughter to swallow Friar Galvao's pills.'"
So, if you "return home" to Rome, you get the whole ball of wax, including the beatification of saints who give out Tic-Tac size rice-paper pills which supposedly heal. And Pope Benedict XVI will be there to bless it all.
By the way, confessional Protestants affirm the historical evangelical doctrine of justification by grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone, and the full authority of Scripture. And yes, we even recite the Creed every Lord's Day and we use a biblical-text based liturgy which is quite similar to that described by Justin Martyr in the second century.
Too bad Dr. Beckwith didn't consider a confessional Protestant church before embracing Romanism. Now he's stuck with Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao and his rice-paper healing pills.
**Not being a chr*stian, the ban on hatred doesn’t even apply to me!**
So do you believe in the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament?
If not, what religion or denomination are you?
“cause they’re not real.”
He’s way too perceptive for me. Funny though, K keeps saying “will you get real” when I think I have a good idea. It happens about once a year, the idea that is, the “will you get real” happens about a couple of times a day. Maybe a stronger deoderant, or if I practice being sincere more or start to take things more seriously. Ponder more, that’s it, I’ll ponder more. That should convince her I’m real.
I thought you guys quoted from the Bible. And now you are quoting from Calvin. Go figure.
Yet, when I post opinions from Calvin about the Blessed Virgin Mary — most of you discount them.
Go figure??
Please format so your posts are readable.
Otherwise, I and many others will skip them, and your words are for naught.
But Calvin in no way believes in the Assumption of Mary or in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. He merely was of the opinion that she remained a virigin throughout her life.
No big deal.
And Calvin believed Mary was a sinner just like every human being on earth and in need of a Savior just like you and me.
I think this fact makes Mary even more lovely. You think it makes her common. We disagree.
So I should tell my husband you’re not real, but Kay is working to make you real. Right?
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh." -- Ezekiel 36:26
“So I should tell my husband you’re not real, but Kay is working to make you real. Right?”
Hmm, I need time to ponder that.
But I don’t wanna be a pirate. 8~(
**He merely was of the opinion that she remained a virigin throughout her life.
No big deal.**
To me it is a big deal.
Yes, but only if he was elevated as high as an elephant’s eye before being released.
If I've misunderstood you, it wouldn't be the first time. 8~)
I had a lot of difficult things to do today and I've effectively ignored every one of them. So for that fact alone, let's call it a draw.
All eyes on Christ; all hearts in Christ...
"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" -- 2 Corinthians 10:5
http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a120.htm
33,000+ denominations of Protestantism and counting
I was at the library one day researching something, and I saw the much talked about Protestant reference, the World Christian Encyclopedia by David B. Barrett, George T. Kurian, and Todd M. Johnson (2001 edition). I thought I’d see for myself what it says. This is what I found....
David Barrett, et al, does indeed refer to “over 33,000 denominations in 238 countries.” (Table 1-5, vol 1, page 16). This refers to his unique definition of a “Christian denomination” but does not include small ones (congregations of a couple hundred or less), which would dramatically increase this number beyond all imagination. Barrett also states there are 242 total Roman Catholic denominations (year 2000 numbers). So I looked into what he believed these denominations were.
Barrett breaks down his encyclopedic reference by country. So I looked up how many Roman Catholic denominations are within the U.S. according to Barrett. Much to my surprise, Barrett shows ONLY ONE Roman Catholic denomination for the United States.
So I wondered where the heck are these 242 denominations? I looked in Barrett’s reference for Britain, and again he listed ONLY ONE Roman Catholic denomination. I thought surely that of the 238 countries within his encyclopedic reference there must be a country that had more than ONE Roman Catholic denomination. There wasn’t. I could not find one country listed by Barrett that had more than ONE Roman Catholic denomination.
So, what does Barrett mean when he states there are 242 Roman Catholic denominations? It seems Barrett is counting each country as it’s own denomination. So, for Barrett, the Roman Catholic Church of the USA is a different denomination than the Roman Catholic Church of Canada. I don’t know how he got 242 denominations from 238 countries listed, however. Some numbers from Barrett’s...
Denominations / Paradenominations:
1970: 26,350
1995: 33,820
Under U.S. Country Table 2, of the 6,222 US denominations, there’s only ONE Roman Catholic denomination listed, and there’s 60 Orthodox denominations. Barrett labels the rest of the denominations: Protestant, Anglican, Independent, and Marginal. The more commonly accepted classification of Christianity used even by Protestant scholars, such as Leslie Dunstan in his book Protestantism, Christianity consists of: (1) Catholic, (2) Orthodox, and (3) Protestant. So, using this more commonly understood classification....
Number of U.S. Denominations
Catholic 1
Orthodox 60
Protestant 6,161
Remember, the above numbers are derived using Protestant sources only. Barrett differs from other Protestants such as Dunstan as to what constitutes a Protestant denomination. What Dunstan would call Protestant, Barrett describes as:
Barrett’s classification:
Protestant 660
Anglican 1
Independent 5,100
Marginal 400
That’s just for the U.S. Yet, there’s but ONE Catholic denomination in the U.S., either by Dunstan or Barrett’s standard.
Another way of looking at it is not to use Barrett’s fuzzy understanding of denominations at all. What does Webster call a denomination? Let’s see... Webster calls a ‘denomination’ a “a religious organization uniting local congregations in a single legal and administrative body.” The category called “Protestantism,” since it does not actually “unite” any local congregation into a “single legal and administrative body,” is more accurately a grouping of denominations rather than a denomination, according to Webster’s definition. How does one know if their “denomination” is of the Protestant kind?
You might be a Protestant if....
(1) You believe the Bible consists of only 66 books
(2) You believe authority rests with Scripture Alone (Sola Scriptura)
(3) You believe justification is by Faith Alone (Sola Fide)
How many of the “denominations” listed by Barrett fall into this category? I’m betting over 33,000. Let’s look at it this way, of the 33,000 that Barrett classifies, which ones refute the pillars of Protestantism shown above? (a) Catholic Church, (b) Oriental Orthodox (5th century schism), (c) Eastern Orthodox (11th century schism). Any others? Perhaps I’ve missed a few. Even if you break apart the Orthodox Churches into separate Patriarchates (Bishops), that doesn’t reduce the BIG number of 33,820 by very much, does it? Some would say, “well that number is completely inflated” based upon Barrett’s fuzzy definition of “denomination.” On the contrary, I would say that it is a MUCH LARGER NUMBER of denominations using Webster’s definition of “denomination.”
Even within the Catholic Church, the most diverse forms of Catholicism, the Latin and Eastern Rite, share the same government, the same “religious organization uniting local congregations in a single legal and administrative body.” In other words, Canon Law for the Eastern Rite and Canon Law for the Latin Rite come from the same single government, chaired by the same Vicar.
Add to this the number of catholic and orthodox denominations, and it is easy to see why one ought to avoid ALL denominations.
Read the Bible, avoid man-made organizations!
“the same “religious organization uniting local congregations in a single legal and administrative body.”
But that’s not the case with the Roman Catholic Church. The local congregations are united in a single diocese, but each church is a legal entity united in the diocese, another legal entity. How many diocese are there in America? Each diocese is not legally responsible for another diocese unless it does something within the other diocese or voluntarily elects to be bound legally. Otherwise, no diocese could file for bankruptcy protection as long as other diocese have assets to answer for the debts.
The Roman Catholic Church wants to say it is hierarchical only in a spiritual sense but legally, only as far as the local diocese to preserve its assets from the type of liability created in the local diocese.
**So, what does Barrett mean when he states there are 242 Roman Catholic denominations? It seems Barrett is counting each country as it’s own denomination. So, for Barrett, the Roman Catholic Church of the USA is a different denomination than the Roman Catholic Church of Canada. I don’t know how he got 242 denominations from 238 countries listed, however. Some numbers from Barrett’s...**
Sounds like this person needs to brush up on his math skills. LOL!
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