Posted on 05/26/2007 4:32:30 PM PDT by Titanites
I am a convert to the Catholic Faith from Calvinism. I loved Calvinism and owned a library full of Calvin, Luther, Warfield, Hodge, Murray, Owen, Machen, etc. as well as helped plant a local Orthodox Presbyterian Church. I knew Reformation Theology and how much hatred it generates for the Catholic Church. As a Calvinist, I could boast with the best of them. I even persecuted the Catholic Church and went after every one of them I found, beating them back with Scripture, upon Scripture, upon quotes of Luther, Calvin, etc. I found great pleasure in debating Catholics.
My one flaw was learning what the Early Church Fathers believed. A Catholic who had not fared well in a debate with me, mentioned I should read the Early Church Fathers to see just how Catholic they were. I honestly thought I would just gain more "ammo" to use in my battles.
I found Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp with my first visit to the University Library. I poured over them for months until finally I pounded the books on the table with my fists, tossed them from the fourth to the third level of the library and wept. It seemed these great martyrs for the Faith were Catholic. It had taken about 8 months of going over Clement, Augustine, Athanasius, etc. to see the Catholic Church was the Early Church. I kept coming back to Ignatius and Polycarp as I could not get them out of my mind.
Over the next two years, I read more and more on the Catholic Faith and became less and less convinced the Reformed Faith was correct. It became clear to me; it was nothing more than a novelty, spewing forth doctrines that had never been believed before. Christ promised the Holy Spirit to His Church and stated the gates of hell would not prevail against it. I thought that was a lie and for 1500 years, the Church had been without truth and the gates of hell had prevailed. It is very humbling to come to the conclusion you have been horribly wrong, even to the point of not trusting the words of our precious Lord and Saviour. Yet, I still was not ready to become a Catholic.
Then one day when I was reading the Scripture I read Paul talking about how he was the most religious Pharisee, the most upright, and you know my heart was pierced and I actually laughed about how I could claim I had been one of the best Calvinists around, but then it hit me. Was that even something to boast about? So I looked up one of the most wonderful examples of boasting the Lord mentioned. Luke 18:9-14 (Please read the Scripture as this is my paraphrase)
'Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Calvinist and the other a sinner. The Calvinist (that would be I) stood and was praying thus to himself, God, I thank thee that I am not like other people, sinners, Catholics, heretics, or even like this sinner beside me. I planted your church in this god-forsaken part of the country, I read the Scriptures and Calvin and Luther twice a week, and the rest of the week I read nothing but reformers and your Scriptures. But the sinner standing a little off to the side, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast saying, God, be merciful to me the sinner. I tell you this man went down to his house justified rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself shall be humbled but he who humbles himself shall be exalted."
You know who the sinner was? I turned next to Luke 5:8 because I was then looking for others who admitted they were sinners for I knew I was once the boaster but now I was the sinner. "But when Simon Peter saw that, he fell down at Jesus' feet saying, Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord." Peter then was able to go on and follow Jesus. Peter came home, this home became the Church, and he was the Rock it was built upon, and he was justified.
At that moment, it finally became clear I could not stay a Calvinist or stay in the OPC. I had plans to attend Westminster Seminary and those were discarded. I lost friends and was informed I must have never been a Christian in the first place.
As I became least, Christ became more. I decided the only place I could go was the home where the Apostle Peter went. I was accepted into the Catholic Church in Easter 2002. I have never been happier and I wish and pray this joy for all. I will never be the same after taking the Body and Blood of our Lord.
Where precisely does your faith come from? Answer that question honestly and you'll end up in La-La Land.
That is 2 questions.
How do I know God chose to save me?
because I could never save myself, I would never have even looked for God left to my devises
Why do I believe I am saved?
Because I have an internal witness of the Holy Spirit
Really?
Are you claiming that you EARNED your salvation by believing?
From the word of God --- you know --- from scriptures like this in Romans 4:5:
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness".
Do you believe these words or not??? Believing God's word is not a work ----
Believing has nothing to do with "earning" salvation. Believing is not a work. You do believe that scripture, don't you??? Romans 4:5 is quite clear ----
The question was "What have you done to earn your salvation?" You seem to be supporting the idea that by believing, you have earned it.
Is it something you must do to earn salvation?
If you don't do it will you "lose" your salvation?
Responding to your ping:
Comments:
(1) The early Church Fathers do not determine the meaning of Scripture. Scripture determines the meaning of Scripture.
(2) The author of that piece probably never understood substitutionary atonement either before or after his move to Rome.
I will read the rest of the thread later.
Is “believing” a “work” according to Romans 5:4???? Yes or No ——
When you read it, you will be amused.
If your belief comes from God, then it is not a work of man, but a work of God. If you came to your belief on your own without the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, then your belief (such as it is) is a work and it will not save you.
Did God draw you to him?
Is your belief the product of God directly intervening in your life to bring you to a saving faith in Christ?
Or is this something that you did on your own?
Do believing and receiving involve a function of the will?
Is belief something you do? Is receiving something you do?
Isn't that what Paul says in Romans 5:4???? Yes or No ——
So is "breathing" --- Is that "a work"?
Is breathing a moral, volitional act?
Yes.
Now answer my questions.
Did God draw you to him?
Is your belief the product of God directly intervening in your life to bring you to a saving faith in Christ?
Or is this something that you did on your own?
Yes or no.
Unfortunately there is much guilt to go around among defenders of both Catholic and Reformed doctrine. There are possibly more posters who are engaged in sincere and inquisitive discource, but these voices often seem overwhelmed by those involved in theology baiting and name calling, much of it based on ignorance ("Calvinism is intellectually lazy", "Catholics believe that Mary is the redeemer", etc.)
Converted protestants often make the best Catholics (Fr. Neuhaus, Cardinal Newman, etc.) I'm not sure that the same would hold true in the other direction since the days of the original reformers.
It is if you want to live --- though it is also autonomic.
After this post I am going to lay down and rest for 5 minutes. Just because I am exercising my will and choosing to do so, does that make my 5 minute nap "a work"???
It is indeed autonomic, and as a matter of course it is NOT a moral act. The act of breathing is not in and of itself a moral act of the will.
After this post I am going to lay down and rest for 5 minutes. Just because I am exercising my will and choosing to do so, does that make my 5 minute nap "a work"???
That depends entirely upon whether or not a moral inclination is the impetus for it. If you are doing so as the outworking of a moral choice you are facing, then indeed it is.
Perhaps, since you seem so intent on insisting faith is not a work, you could define for us exactly what a work IS.
Yes.
Good ---- then believing in God's word is not a work.
Did God draw you to him?
He certainly did just as He does to all men as the scripture says: "If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me". But He didn't say that He would make all men believe in him.
Is your belief the product of God directly intervening in your life to bring you to a saving faith in Christ?
Yes --- just as He promises to intervene in everyone's life to draw them to His Son, but believing in the salvation that He provides through His word was still ultimately in my hands not His. I couldn't "work" my way to eternal life, but I could "believe" in the work that God had done as revealed through His Word. My "believing" was not "a work" anymore than opening my hands to receive a gift at Christmas time is a work or an effort on my part.
Is opening your hands to receive a gift an effort for you? Is it work to accept a gift?
Or is this something that you did on your own?
I did nothing more or less than Abraham, who believed God, and his belief was not a work, as you have correctly acknowledged. But his belief was accounted to him for righteousness.
Has your belief in God's Word been accounted to you for righteousness, like Abraham's was, or do you consider it work to open your bible and receive what is written therein?
Lucifer BELIEVES in God, yet he is fallen. Belief without love of the Lord is nothing at all.
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