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A question was raised about whether Paul was saved prior to his baptism, when he encountered the Lord on the road to Damascus.

Paul, himself, describes it this way in Acts 22:16.

16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

It seems pretty clear that Paul considered his baptism required for the remission of his sins.

1 posted on 06/04/2007 11:17:38 AM PDT by pjr12345
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; bremenboy; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; ScubieNuc

Have at it...


2 posted on 06/04/2007 11:21:13 AM PDT by pjr12345 (I'm a Christian Conservative Republican, NOT a Republican Conservative Christian.)
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To: pjr12345

bump for later discussion.


3 posted on 06/04/2007 11:25:30 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Politics is the second oldest profession. It bears many similarities to the first.)
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To: pjr12345

First, it is quite clear from such passages as Acts 15 and Romans 4 that no external act is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by divine grace through faith alone (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9, etc.).

If baptism were necessary for salvation, we would expect to find it stressed whenever the gospel is presented in Scripture. That is not the case, however. Peter mentioned baptism in his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38). However, in his sermon from Solomon’s portico in the Temple (Acts 3:12-26), Peter makes no reference to baptism, but links forgiveness of sin to repentance (3:19). If baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sin, why didn’t Peter say so in Acts 3?

Paul never made baptism any part of his gospel presentations. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul gives a concise summary of the gospel message he preached. There is no mention of baptism. In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul states that “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel,” thus clearly differentiating the gospel from baptism. That is difficult to understand if baptism is necessary for salvation. If baptism were part of the gospel itself, necessary for salvation, what good would it have done Paul to preach the gospel, but not baptize? No one would have been saved. Paul clearly understood baptism to be separate from the gospel, and hence in no way efficacious for salvation.

Perhaps the most convincing refutation of the view that baptism is necessary for salvation are those who were saved apart from baptism. We have no record of the apostles’ being baptized, yet Jesus pronounced them clean of their sins (John 15:3—note that the Word of God, not baptism, is what cleansed them). The penitent woman (Luke 7:37-50), the paralytic man (Matthew 9:2), and the publican (Luke 18:13-14) also experienced forgiveness of sins apart from baptism.

The Bible also gives us an example of people who were saved before being baptized. In Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and those with him were converted through Peter’s message. That they were saved before being baptized is evident from their reception of the Holy Spirit (v. 44) and the gifts of the Spirit (v. 46) before their baptism. Indeed, it is the fact that they had received the Holy Spirit (and hence were saved) that led Peter to baptize them (cf. v. 47).

One of the basic principles of biblical interpretation is the analogia scriptura, the analogy of Scripture. In other words, we must compare Scripture with Scripture in order to understand its full and proper sense. And since the Bible doesn’t contradict itself, any interpretation of a specific passage that contradicts the general teaching of the Bible is to be rejected. Since the general teaching of the Bible is, as we have seen, that baptism and other forms of ritual are not necessary for salvation, no individual passage could teach otherwise. Thus we must look for interpretations of those passages that will be in harmony with the general teaching of Scripture. With that in mind, let’s look briefly at some passages that appear to teach that baptism is required for salvation.

In Acts 2:38, Peter appears to link forgiveness of sins to baptism. But there are at least two plausible interpretations of this verse that do not connect forgiveness of sin with baptism. It is possible to translate the Greek preposition eis “because of,” or “on the basis of,” instead of “for.” It is used in that sense in Matthew 3:11; 12:41; and Luke 11:32. It is also possible to take the clause “and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ” as parenthetical. Support for that interpretation comes from that fact that “repent” and “your” are plural, while “be baptized” is singular, thus setting it off from the rest of the sentence. If that interpretation is correct, the verse would read “Repent (and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ) for the forgiveness of your sins.” Forgiveness is thus connected with repentance, not baptism, in keeping with the consistent teaching of the New Testament (cf. Luke 24:47; John 3:18; Acts 5:31; 10:43; 13:38; 26:18; Ephesians 5:26).

Mark 16:16, a verse often quoted to prove baptism is necessary for salvation, is actually a proof of the opposite. Notice that the basis for condemnation in that verse is not the failure to be baptized, but only the failure to believe. Baptism is mentioned in the first part of the verse because it was the outward symbol that always accompanied the inward belief. I might also mention that many textual scholars think it unlikely that vv. 9-20 are an authentic part of Mark’s gospel. We can’t discuss here all the textual evidence that has caused many New Testament scholars to reject the passage. But you can find a thorough discussion in Bruce Metzger, et al., A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, pp. 122-128, and William Hendriksen, The Gospel of Mark, pp. 682-687.

Water baptism does not seem to be what Peter has in view in 1 Peter 3:21. The English word “baptism” is simply a transliteration of the Greek word baptizo, which means “to immerse.” Baptizo does not always refer to water baptism in the New Testament (cf. Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; 7:4; 10:38-39; Luke 3:16; 11:38; 12:50; John 1:33; Acts 1:5; 11:16; 1 Corinthians 10:2; 12:13). Peter is not talking about immersion in water, as the phrase “not the removal of dirt from the flesh” indicates. He is referring to immersion in Christ’s death and resurrection through “an appeal to God for a good conscience,” or repentance.

I also do not believe water baptism is in view in Romans 6 or Galatians 3. I see in those passages a reference to the baptism in the Holy Spirit (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:13).

In Acts 22:16, Paul recounts the words of Ananias to him following his experience on the Damascus road: “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.” It is best to connect the phrase “wash away your sins” with “calling on His name.” If we connect it with “be baptized,” the Greek participle epikalesamenos (”calling”) would have no antecedent. Paul’s sins were washed away not by baptism, but by calling on His name.

Baptism is certainly important, and required of every believer. However, the New Testament does not teach that baptism is necessary for salvation.


4 posted on 06/04/2007 11:28:18 AM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: pjr12345

Acts 16:30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?


5 posted on 06/04/2007 11:36:07 AM PDT by Taxbilly
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To: pjr12345
Hoo-boy! This subject is like whacking a beehive with a stick, but it often lets you pinpoint a person's specific faith.

Chart

7 posted on 06/04/2007 11:38:01 AM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: pjr12345

Apparently Paul was baptized standing up.

It says, “ARISE and be baptised.”

Literally, Arise means “stand up.”


10 posted on 06/04/2007 12:06:24 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: pjr12345

***

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts BY FAITH.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

*****

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

****

Rom 4:1 ¶ What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Rom 4:5 ¶ But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

After all this talk about faith without works for justification why would he suddenly start talking about a need to be baptized in water in Romans 6? Unless the baptism is by the Holy Spirit into the Lord Jesus and into his death. Water just doesn’t fit.

Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Every born again believer has drank of this cup and been baptized with this baptism. Not by actually being crucified but by proxy.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Remember, not every time baptism is mentioned does it mean into water.


12 posted on 06/04/2007 12:17:39 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (When someone burns a cross on your lawn the best firehose is an AK-47.)
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To: pjr12345
thus God could not have done so

Your arms too short to box with God, brother.

What does "sovereign" mean to you?

Do you believe God can do what he wants to do, or does he have to check with you first?

22 posted on 06/04/2007 12:53:27 PM PDT by Jim Noble (We don't need to know what Cho thought. We need to know what Librescu thought.)
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To: pjr12345

**My decision was to be re-baptized for the remission of my sins immediately upon being fully convinced of the truth. **

Congratulations. You have made your first step toward Catholicism. (All sins are forgiven for an adult upon their re-baptism into the Catholic Church,) although the Catholic Church recognizes the baptism of several other faiths, also.


56 posted on 06/04/2007 4:40:06 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: pjr12345
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

How do these verses fit into your theology???

106 posted on 06/05/2007 9:46:58 AM PDT by Iscool (OK, I'm Back...Now what were your other two wishes???)
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To: pjr12345

IF this is true, then every Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, etc ,over 80% of the people on Earth, are going to hell. I do not believe that a loving God would abandon 80% of his children.


115 posted on 06/05/2007 10:43:47 AM PDT by ulm1 (Jimmy Carter-WORST President in US History.)
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To: pjr12345

Bump to read later. Thanks for the post


121 posted on 06/05/2007 11:06:11 AM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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