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To: LiteKeeper
So many verses to explain away... maybe it might be better to rethink your doctrine?

If baptism were necessary for salvation, we would expect to find it stressed whenever the gospel is presented in Scripture.

This is a pre-supposition that can only prejudice one's reading of Scripture. One cannot pick up walnuts when one's sack is filled with pecans.

Paul never made baptism any part of his gospel presentations.

Paul does discuss baptism a doctrinal theme in Romans 6, and even acknowledges having baptized people. And just because Paul does not believe his personal mission was to baptize does not mean that others with him did not perform the task.

Perhaps the most convincing refutation of the view that baptism is necessary for salvation are those who were saved apart from baptism.

The Apostles may or may not have been baptized (Jesus was.) However, we have no way of knowing. Also, might their special relationship with the Lord, as confirmed at Pentecost, have played a role? They certainly had special authority due to this? Also, weren't they the ones who received the Great Commission? It said that they should baptize others, not each other. Hmm.

The Bible also gives us an example of people who were saved before being baptized.

Why don't you actually READ my post. You may be enlightened about this topic.

9 posted on 06/04/2007 11:56:59 AM PDT by pjr12345 (I'm a Christian Conservative Republican, NOT a Republican Conservative Christian.)
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To: pjr12345
So many verses to explain away... maybe it might be better to rethink your doctrine?

Exactly! What in your doctrine explains why Jesus never baptized by water?

11 posted on 06/04/2007 12:11:24 PM PDT by Liberal Bob
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To: pjr12345
My father once told me that the one talking the loudest in a discussion is probably wrong.

Baptismal regeneration is definitely the minority position - and I have studied the issue for over 30 years of ministry.

I did read your entry, and find it unconvincing.

Grace and peace to you.

17 posted on 06/04/2007 12:42:51 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: pjr12345
The Apostles may or may not have been baptized (Jesus was.) However, we have no way of knowing. Also, might their special relationship with the Lord, as confirmed at Pentecost, have played a role? They certainly had special authority due to this? Also, weren't they the ones who received the Great Commission? It said that they should baptize others, not each other. Hmm.

I would *strongly* argue that the apostles were baptized along with the 3,000 on Pentecost. Anything else would be the same kind of special exception you (correctly, IMO) deny the thief.

30 posted on 06/04/2007 1:15:51 PM PDT by Sloth (The GOP is to DemonRats in politics as Michael Jackson is to Jeffrey Dahmer in babysitting.)
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