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Posted on 06/13/2007 4:39:26 AM PDT by fr maximilian mary
I'm fully with you on this. That being the case, why do folks continue with the misnomer that the RCC is a Christian church? We make no such accommodation for the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses.
Alas, the RCC is not alone in this position. Consider certain Protestant churches that merit the same consideration. First to mind is the Episcopal denomination.
How far away from the narrow path of Truth can someone wander before he is on a different road?
I really don’t know. They should just come out and admit what they are up to. The Popes all say it right out don’t they? The Truth will set them free. Then the people who want to worship Christ can form their own church and those who want to worship Mary and the saints can go have theirs. It seems so logical, rather than all this angst and double-talk they got going on
Agreed; that is both unscriptural and un-Christian, and the Catholic Church is glad to agree with you.
Both the original poster and the author of the article have asked you to cease bashing false assumptions of the Catholic Church and to return to discussing the article. I too am going to ask you to please stop threadjacking and return to discussing the article, or to leave the thread.
“Mary takes part in the offering by consenting to the immolation of her Son.”
How does Mary consent to the “immolation” of her son when His death is not revealed until well into His ministry and then, it is revealed to the disciples? When it was told to her that she would conceive all that was revealed was that Jesus would be King.
The justification of the elect by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ would appear to be germane to a thread entitled, "The Primacy of Christ."
As illustrated on this thread, the RCC asserts the "Primacy of Christ" is somehow dependent on Mary, too, since some RC posters have stated here that Mary is indeed a "co-redemtrix."
Perhaps a better title for this thread would be "The Primacy of Christ and Mary and the Magisterium and Tradition and Doctrine and Dogma and the Mass."
Woe doggie(ma)! As far as I can tell, every statement put forth is based upon well-supported RCC teachings (doctrine, dogma and/or tradition), and attested by RCC Freepers.
If you disagree with what has been posted, you need to check with your priest. Or perhaps you ought to consider converting to Christianity.
It has not been illustrated or even suggested by Catholics on this thread that the Primacy of Christ is in any way dependant on Mary!
Once again, you fail to understand what the title “Co-redemptrix” means. I have explained it above. It does not in any way mean that the primacy of Christ is dependant on Our Lady. As I said before, all privileges of Mary come from Christ.
God Bless.
Which came first, Danny boy, the chicken or the egg?
Here the Council of Trent interposed with a definition of faith (Sess. XXII, can. iii): “If any one saith, that the Mass is only a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving. . . but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits only the recipient, and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, punishments, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema” (Denzinger, n. 950)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm
Once again, you fail to understand what the title "Co-redemptrix" means. I have explained it above. It does not in any way mean that the primacy of Christ is dependant on Our Lady.
I will refer you to your own statement and blue-duncan's questioning of that statement in your post #104...
BLUE-DUNCAN: How does Mary consent to the "immolation" of her son when His death is not revealed until well into His ministry and then, it is revealed to the disciples? When it was told to her that she would conceive all that was revealed was that Jesus would be King. 104 posted on 06/14/2007 1:49:46 PM PDT by blue-duncan DANNY: "Mary takes part in the offering by consenting to the immolation of her Son."
So you see, your own statement makes Mary's consent "a taking part in the offering.
Indeed, by your own words it would appear without "Mary's consent" Christ could not have been sacrificed for your sins and mine, and God's plan of salvation would be nixed before it left the gate.
The RCC's problem, one among many, is the term "co-redemptrix," a designation loaded with error, blasphemy and deceit. Mary does not redeem anyone, nor does she facilitate our redemption. She has nothing to do with our salvation. Zilch. May God help those who believe this lie to run from it.
And thanks for that excellent find from Trent, that ever-present goodie-bag for we who have been anathematized.
One Priest (Christ) and one Sacrifice that is both once and eternal.
NOW, THAT SAID: This has nothing to do with the original post. Please quit threadjacking.
Since no one wants to talk about Jesus, let's talk about Mary (at the bidding of non-Catholics to boot!). My question is this--is Mary just used by God as an incubator? Is she just like a plastic cup to be used and thrown away, or rather crushed on Calvary?
God could have formed the New Adam from the dust of the earth, as He did the first Adam. But He did not. Why? Perhaps God, who is love, freely chose to include Mary as part of His plan?
This is a far cry from "Mary worship". She is not the Word made flesh; she is not the Redeemer. She is the New Eve who cooperates with and subordinate to Christ who alone is the great High Priest and Redeemer.
at the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.Amen!!!
“She has nothing to do with our salvation.”
Oh, really? Who was it then that gave the Incarnate Christ his body? Who was it who said “Yes” to the angel and accepted the reponsibility of being the Mother of God?
Mary takes part in the offering of Christ because Christ willed it. He didn’t need Mary to become Incarnate, yet He chose her to be His Mother and to participate in the act of redemption. Christ could have been sacrificed for our sins without Mary, but He chose to have Mary involved.
To answer Blue-Duncan, see Luke 2:34-35 and also see the Crucifixion accounts where Mary is at the foot of the Cross praying for her Son and Luke 2:34-35 is fulfilled. Mary pondered in her heart the things told to her while Christ was still a child. If Mary didn’t have an idea of what was to be expected of her from the Angel, her “fiat” would not have been valid.
Once again, this post isn’t about Mary. It is about the primacy of Christ. It would be nice to start talking about that instead of misrepresenting the teachings of the Church on Mary.
God Bless.
"And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and cried out with a loud voice saying, 'Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb!'" (Luke 1:42).
Come Holy Spirit!
Help me out here, are you trying to say that Jesus did not come to save sinners? St. Paul says “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” (1 Timothy 1:15)
Then you are highly misinformed.
Things mentioned by Protestant FReepers on this thread that are erroneous (this list is not exhaustive):
...The people “join with Mary”, so they’re all God now and every mass they take the Lord and offer Him up. It’s black arts, baby...
...Yes, Mary has the power, Jesus is “the sacrificial victim”, ie powerless...
...So now we have the RCC asserting Mary sacrificed Jesus rather than God Almighty sacrificed Jesus....
...My thoughts exactly. Not only is she the mother of God, she is God. They should just admit it...
Those are just a few of the ones that I noticed. The Church doesn't teach any of these things that other FReepers have claimed it does. To your credit, none of those erroneous statements aren't yours. Now... if you're interested in discussing the post, please discuss the post. Otherwise, please let everyone else discuss the post.
The Doctor is IN.
By your logic, we should hunt down the mother of Saddam Hussein and execute her, too.
I couldn’t find the error. Based upon the fundamental positions of the RCC, all this follows. Logic dictates.
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