3 insurers shed light on Protestant church sex abuse

Houston Chronicle ^ | June 14, 2007 | ROSE FRENCH

[Alex Murphy]

I seem to recall various Protestants suggesting that the Catholic Church should (have) report(ed) them to the police. I actually consider that a good suggestion.

As do I. While I understand Salvation's frustration with the (perceived) disproportionate media coverage, IMO the media zeroed in on the Catholic Church because they caught the church in a cover-up, not because of the abuses themselves. These aren't just ecclesiastical crimes; they're civil crimes as well. The various Archdioceses' retention of these abusive priests may satisfy ecclesiastical law re the former category, but their refusal to acknowledge and respond appropriately re the latter category is IMO what gave this issue "legs" with the press.

Aside from the civil issues, "Protestant" churches tend to address their ecclesiastical issues quite rapidly. The Ted Haggard story "went away" because his church (rightly) booted him from his position of authority, and he removed himself from leadership at the National Association of Evangelicals, all within a matter of days after he was outed. Had Haggard tried to retain either position, or had the church tried to install him in another congregation w/o a revelation of his deeds to them, I'm sure the media would have hounded Ted Haggard to the end of his days.

[ArrogantBustard]

Several years ago, the Baptist General Convention of Texas, which represents moderates who have increasingly distanced themselves from the conservative-led Southern Baptists, started a list of accused clergy for churches, but not the public.

Nor, apparently, for the police.

I'll take "Cover-ups by Another Name" for $2000, Alex.

It's you guys' turn in the grinder ... you have my sympathy. Best thing to do is visibly and vigorously purge yourselves of the satanic perverts. I'd think that would be obvious, by now.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Don’t hide it. Prosecute all offenders the first time they are offenders. If someone has a history of it and they have done their jail time, tell them to worship at home. That may be tough, but a truly repentant person would be completely willing to do whatever it takes to keep the kids safe.

[Alex Murphy]

I'll take "Cover-ups by Another Name" for $2000, Alex.

You may be right - I missed that in my reading of the article.

Drawing up such a list for internal purposes is IMO a wise move for dealing with the ecclesiastical issue (say, adultery by a pastoral member), and the charge should be investigated by the ecclesiastical body for church discipline. Any accusations of a civil violation (i.e. statutory rape) should be encouraged to be reported by the accuser to the civil authorities, as well as be investigated by the ecclesiastical body for church discipline.

Hopefully, another list is drawn up that shows the names of those "accused and cleared" covering both the ecclesiastical and civil realms - and said ecclesiastical body should vigorously defend the honor and reputations of these named individuals afterwords, since they are cleared. Any names found on my theoretical first list that don't make it to my theoretical second list should be dismissed and prosecuted immediately, both ecclesiastically and civilly.

It's conceivable that this Baptist group's list is composed of those accused but cleared, but we don't know that from the article, and on first reading it certainly isn't painted that way.

[Mad Dawg]

YEah, One of my last “official” Episcopal things to do was to go for a day long sexual ethics and what-not course. It was clear the Insurer required it as a condition of insuring the Diocese for rates which were affordable.

[xzins]

Limiting liability is the name of the game.

[Cheverus]

I think this article and follow up discussion shows how difficult it is to track abuse in bodies that have a looser beaucracy.

Given that many other Faith Traditions can “Call” from across the Country, it is difficult to always get all the background.

Case in point: we have a so-called “independent” Latin Mass Chapel here in West Roxbury. They hired a Pastor awhile back name Brian McMahon, who it turned out, did time for Manslaughter and is rumored to have forced a parishioner he had an affair with to have an abortion.

And if anyone is wondering why this is comparable this guy is not a Catholic Priest he was/is a Sede therefore not “rostered” anywhere, just a free agent.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Yes, all men are fallen. In truth, a married clergy precludes much of the sin that is endemic to Rome.

The RCC only wishes there were sex scandals in Protestant churches of the same magnitude that exist in the RCC.

I urge everyone, Protestant and Catholic, to rent or buy the jarring, engrossing and truthful documentary DVD, "Deliver Us From Evil."

After viewing the DVD you realize the problem is so deep and vast as to be nearly insurmountable for the RCC.

And you understand better what the difference is between sexual transgressions in the RCC and the Protestant churches. In Protestant churches the minister is seen as a fellow believer, a leader who is learned and commissioned by God to teach and guide, but who is not any closer to God than any of his flock.

OTOH the RCC teaches that the priest is actually different from other believers, significantly closer to God because he is seen as the actual and required administrator of God's grace. Protestants rightly acknowledge this responsibility as belonging to the Holy Spirit alone and not to any man on earth.

It's this elevated position of supernatural authority, coupled with an unnatural, unBiblical celibacy, that create the massive, systemic problem in the RCC which the Protestant churches simply do not have, by the grace of God.

It's the difference between law-breaking under a republican form of government with its checks and balances, compared to law-breaking under a monarchy. One is open to scrutiny as much as possible; the other is hidden and subversive by definition and the perks of the position.

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light." -- Ephesians 5:11-14

[ears_to_hear]

The one case I know of ( a man in training for the pastorate touched a young girl inappropriately, no sodomy or intercourse),was announced to the church at a service, he was reported to the police and needless to say dismissed from the church and denomination

[blue-duncan]

“Yes, all men are fallen.”

And women too, except, being shorter, they don’t have to fall as far.

[Frumanchu]

I certainly hope the proddie* leaders figure it out faster and better than the Catholic bishops did. A desire to keep things quiet and avoid scandals didn't exactly work out well for them...

Along those lines, and in light of our other recent conversations, I'd be interested to see what the operating definition of "Protestant" is for this article.

[markomalley]

For the purpose of that post, please see the footnote :)

I was thinking of you when I made it.

[xzins]

Fru, my experience in the military is that they wanted to view everything in Christianity that wasn’t catholic or orthodox as protestant.

Methodism came a couple hundred years after the reformation, so it’s ify whether one could agree with Wesley and include them in the reformation. The reformation churches, in my mind, should be the true definition of protestant.

It’s simply incorrect to view the Assembly of God or the Church of God, etc., as protestant. Some other label would be more appropriate: American Evangelical....something like that.

[NeoCaveman]

If only they were allowed to get married.

Oh, wait, nevermind.

[xzins]

I find it hard to believe that American Roman Catholics view the priest as other than just another joe. They might “like” for him to represent them well, but surely they know better than to think that he’s of a different nature than the rest of humanity.

[trisham]

Wherever there are humans there will be sinners, whether or not it is reported.

[Frumanchu]

Fru, my experience in the military is that they wanted to view everything in Christianity that wasn’t catholic or orthodox as protestant.

That is a common mistake repeated over and over again by so many people. They assume that because the Protestant Reformation marked a departure from the Roman Catholic Church that any church not Roman Catholic (or Orthodox) is therefore Protestant, even though they bear little if any doctrinal resemblence to the Reformed churches.

Methodism came a couple hundred years after the reformation, so it’s ify whether one could agree with Wesley and include them in the reformation. The reformation churches, in my mind, should be the true definition of protestant.

Wesleyan Methodists would be considered borderline at best. Obviously there is little question about Whitefield Methodists.

It’s simply incorrect to view the Assembly of God or the Church of God, etc., as protestant. Some other label would be more appropriate: American Evangelical....something like that.

Agreed. Those churches really are not Protestant in any true sense of the word.

[ArrogantBustard]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. A Catholic view of the matter should (I believe) look something like this:

My Pastor ... or any other priest ... or Bishop ... or Pope ... is, in and of himself, a sinful man as much in need of Jesus' saving Grace as you or I. And as even the most casual observer can tell, historically some of them have seemed to be far more Grace-filled than others. They are called (by God) to to an office of enormous responsibility, but also given the Grace (by God, though the Sacrament of Holy Orders) to fulfill that responsibility. What they do with it can be great or scandalous.

Yes, we believe that Holy Orders leaves an "indelible mark" on their soul ... but it doesn't make them anything other than human.

To suggest that we believe that the priest is some sort of half-divine superman is an egregious act of false witness.

[Campion]

“And I give Thee thanks that I am not like other men — drunken, greedy, grasping, and sexually immoral — and not like that Romanist over there ...”

[Alex Murphy]

Methodism came a couple hundred years after the reformation, so it’s ify whether one could agree with Wesley and include them in the reformation. The reformation churches, in my mind, should be the true definition of protestant.

It’s simply incorrect to view the Assembly of God or the Church of God, etc., as protestant. Some other label would be more appropriate: American Evangelical....something like that.

I agree. In my own mind, I tend to break down "Protestant" into categories of:

"Reformed/Protestant" (16th century, those that trace denominational and creedal roots back to the Reformation),
"Evangelical" (17th century, like xzins' Wesleyans/Methodists or the Baptists, largely anabaptist, that arose after the Reformed groups);
"Restorationist" (19th century, independent "first century style" churches / denominations that can be traced back to the Stone/Campbell movement in NY's Hudson River valley); and
"Charismatic" (20th century, any "Spirit-led" but anti-creedal church or denomination that followed or appeared alongside the Restorationists, but especially those that originated with the "baby boomer" generation i.e. the Calvary Chapel/Vineyard churches).

I'm honestly not sure where I'd place groups like the "emergent churches" or even the Warren / Osteen style megachurches. They lack the strong theological distinctives (Calvinism, creedalism) that characterizes the earlier groups, and the strong cultural distinctives (display of charismatic gifts, fierce cultural isolationism) that characterizes the later groups. I tend to think that they should get their own category, but I usually lump them under the "evangelical" label because they usually associate themselves with that group socially.