Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Scientists certify Our Lady of Guadalupe tilma
Western Catholic Reporter ^ | June 18, 2007 | By RAMON GONZALEZ

Posted on 06/17/2007 2:37:44 PM PDT by NYer

In 1531, the Virgin Mary appeared to Mexican peasant Juan Diego. To prove to all that the apparitions were real, the Virgin imprinted an image of herself on Juan Diego's tilma, a thin cloth made of cactus fibres.

This type of tilma normally decays in 30 to 40 years. But Juan Diego's tilma is still miraculously intact and the same as it was when he wore it.

Over the centuries, many have expressed doubts about the divinity of the image, but Prof. Victor Campa Mendoza has no doubt whatsoever.

"This is not a human act but an act of God," he says in Spanish, adding he has accumulated enough evidence to prove it.

The first is in Revelation chapter 12 which speaks about a woman remarkably similar to Our Lady of Guadalupe, including the fact she was accompanied by the sun, the stars and the moon and that she was pregnant.

Four-petal flower

According to the Nahualt culture, Juan Diego's culture, Our Lady is pregnant in the tilma. This is clear by the shape of her waist and by the four-petal flower resting on her womb, which in Nahualt culture is a symbol of pregnancy, Mendoza said.

A professor of ethics at the Technological Institute of Durango, Mexico, Mendoza has done extensive analysis and research on Juan Diego's tilma for the past 30 years and has written several books on Our Lady of Guadalupe, including the Mantle Codex, the Nican Mopohua and his latest, Guadalupan.

He is currently on a speaking tour of several U.S. and Canadian cities. Blessed Sacrament Parish in Wainwright sponsored his trip to Alberta. He made presentations at parishes in Edmonton, Wainwright, Lloydminster and Vegreville.

In a brief interview in Spanish and during a PowerPoint presentation for 35 people at St. Martin's Parish in Vegreville June 12, Mendoza spoke candidly about Our Lady and gave further evidence of the supernatural origin of her image. He used a large canvass of Our Lady for the presentation and with a large ruler he pointed to details in the image.

Carlos Lara of Wainwright, who interpreted the presentation, said in his native Mexico Our Lady is popular and nobody questions the divinity of the tilma. But presentations like Mendoza's are necessary for skeptical westerners.

The universe

Mendoza noted Our Lady's tilma shows the radiant rays of the sun surrounding her as she appeared, wearing a blue-green mantle that depicts the universe.

Also fascinating is the pattern of stars strewn across her mantle. According to Mendoza the pattern mirrors the exact position of constellations on the day her image appeared on the tilma, Dec. 12, 1531. He used a graph to prove it.

It has been found that by imposing a topographical map of central Mexico on the Virgin's dress, the mountains, rivers and principal lakes coincide with the decoration on this dress, he said.

The fact that the tilma has remained perfectly preserved since 1531 is a miracle in itself, according to Mendoza. After more than four centuries, Juan Diego's tilma retains the same freshness and the same lively colour as when it was new.

Analysis shows that there is no trace of drawing or sketching under the colour, even though perfectly recognizable retouches were done on the original.

He said a professor from NASA conducted an independent analysis in 1979 and concluded that there is no way to explain the quality of the pigments used for the pink dress, the blue veil, the face and the hands, the permanence of the colours, or the vividness of the colours after several centuries, during which they ordinarily should have deteriorated.

Much research has also been conducted regarding mysterious images that appear in Our Lady's eyes. The images reflected in her retinas are of the moment when she left her imprint on Juan Diego's tilma and Mendoza showed enlarged pictures of those images.

Peruvian Jose Aste Tonsmann, an expert in digital image processing, produced them. The figures in Our Lady's eyes' reflection show the people historically known to have been present at the unveiling of the tilma in 1531 - Bishop Zumarraga, his interpreter, Juan Diego and several family members.

Further proof of the supernatural origin of the tilma comes from St. Luke, who in 71 AD painted a portrait of Our Lady that is remarkably similar to Our Lady of Guadalupe, noted Mendoza. "This is a true sign that this an act of God," he said.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: guadelupe; juandiego; mx; olg; ourladyofguadalupe; tilma
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-118 next last
To: Uncle Chip

googling “Miguel Olimon” only gets you links to atheist websites, so I don’t know. Nor do I care really. A lot of so-called “Catholic” professors should be thrown out of the Church.


81 posted on 06/19/2007 7:28:46 AM PDT by Nihil Obstat (Kyrie Eleison)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

Comment #82 Removed by Moderator

To: Nihil Obstat
The story of Miguel Olimon's inquest at the Pontifical Institute in Mexico and the subsequent findings appeared in an article in the Catholic St Louis Review some time back in the 1990's. I read it, cut out the article, and probably still have it somewhere.
83 posted on 06/19/2007 7:44:39 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

Hmmm, that doesn’t come up either
http://www.google.com/search?q=Miguel+Olimon++St+Louis+Review+&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Nor this..
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Miguel+Olimon+inquest+at+the+Pontifical+Institute+in+Mexico&spell=1


84 posted on 06/19/2007 7:54:40 AM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

This week’s St Louis Review:

June 15, 2007

Guadalupe pilgrims return spiritually refreshed

Anne Steffens
ON TO MASS — On June 8, the fifth day of the pilgrimage, Archbishop Raymond Burke walks with pilgrims Patricia and Jorge Viamontes to morning Mass at the chapel at the top of Tepeyac Hill, where St. Juan Diego witnessed the apparitions of Our Lady of Guadalupe in 1531. The Viamonteses are members of St. Anselm Parish in Creve Coeur.
Archbishop Raymond L. Burke said he was deeply moved and pleased by the experiences he shared last week in Mexico City with his fellow pilgrims from the St. Louis Archdiocese.

In an interview June 11, he described the six-day pilgrimage he led to the holy places associated with Our Lady of Guadalupe and her apparitions to St. Juan Diego in 1531. He traveled with 75 people from the archdiocese; they left June 4 and returned June 9. The youngest on the trip was a ninth-grader; the eldest, an octogenarian. Archbishop Burke said he was “very deeply impressed by the unity of the pilgrims, who Our Blessed Mother very quickly brought together, and also by (their) great devotion.”

It was such an edifying experience, the archbishop said, that he hopes to lead more pilgrimages of the archdiocesan faithful to Mexico City. He would like to do so every other year, if possible.

The trip was extra special for him as it was the first time he had led a pilgrimage of archdiocesan faithful to Mexico City. It was his fifth pilgrimage and sixth visit to the Marian sites.

The reason he keeps going back is “really simple,” he said. “It’s our Blessed Mother. She’s there in an extraordinary way in the image that she’s left behind and in the dedication and devotion which she inspires. So I love going back to her whenever I can, and, of course, it always brings me special joy to be able to take others with me.”

The pilgrims, he said, spent much time together in prayer and devotion, and in particular, participating in daily Mass, “the source of their joy and the heart of the activity.”

He added, “It was not only a holy time but also a time to enjoy one another’s company, so it was good.”

The pilgrims attended Mass at the central holy sites associated with the Blessed Mother, St. Juan Diego and his dying uncle, to whom Mary appeared and healed. The Masses were celebrated by the archbishop, who speaks fluent Spanish, and other archdiocesan priests on the pilgrimage.

Archbishop Burke called on the pilgrims to be “missionaries of God’s mercy and love in our society today, especially on behalf of those who are suffering in any way and those whose dignity as human beings is not fully respected.” He said he hoped they would be renewed in the Respect Life apostolate, “but also in all forms of bringing God’s mercy and love to others.”

Archbishop Burke has long revered Mary under the title of Our Lady of Guadalupe. He first learned about her from the sisters who taught him at grade school while growing up in Wisconsin. In 1999 as bishop of La Crosse, Wis., he founded a Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe in his home diocese to renew devotional life there.

It was in reading Pope John Paul II’s apostolic exhortation on the Church in America that the archbishop “came to a really deeper appreciation of the importance of Our Lady of Guadalupe for the Church in our country, and that’s what has led me to an ever deeper devotion. The more I have gotten to know her apparitions and the message that she gave to St. Juan Diego the more I’ve been inspired. It’s just been a kind of growing relationship with her.”

The Blessed Mother under her title of Our Lady of Guadalupe “makes it very clear that her sole mission is to bring us to her Son that we might know God’s mercy and love in our lives,” he said.

“She came right at the beginning of the first evangelization of America. Columbus discovered America in 1492, and then not quite 40 years later, the Blessed Mother appeared. And she really inspired the first evangelization of our continent. So now as we face the growing secularization of our society and the particular challenges of living the faith in our time, it is our Blessed Mother under her title of Our Lady of Guadalupe who guides us and inspires us.”

Archbishop Burke added that Pope John Paul II had accepted a title which had been given to Our Lady of Guadalupe by the bishops of South and Central America. That title is “‘Star of the New Evangelization.’ By ‘star,’ we mean that she is the one who is leading us and guiding us in the New Evangelization of our time.”

Several pilgrims became nearly speechless when asked to describe their experience in Mexico City.

Jeanne Fluri, a member of St. Clement of Rome Parish in Des Peres, became tearful when she described seeing the tilma with the image of Our Lady at the Basilica of Guadalupe.

“My last time (seeing the tilma) before we had to leave — oh, I get tears now — I thought, Our Lady, will I get to see you again like this? It was so beautiful,” she said. “To me, it’s about as close to heaven as you can get. To be right there where the actual tilma was.”

Fluri said she also was overcome by the poverty she saw all around her in Mexico City. However, “they’re all joyous. Nobody is like, ‘Poor me.’ They’re very joyous, and our guides were so loving and knowledgeable.”

Being able to make a pilgrimage with Archbishop Burke also was a highlight for Fluri. She said he created “such joy” in those who made the trip.

“It’s kind of like having an ambassador to God go with you,” she said. “Each liturgy he prepared so beautifully.”

Tracy Rice, a member of St. Peter Parish in Kirkwood, said the experience of seeing the tilma left her speechless. She said she also observed the immense reverence that pilgrims and native Mexicans seemed to have for Our Lady.

“We saw pilgrims kneeling, crawling on their knees into the shrine,” she said. “The people in Mexico, this is such gift for them. You saw sisters, you saw priests, you saw brothers, how they stand there and just gaze and pray with their Rosaries.”

“It was so wonderful to be there with her,” said Rice, “and thinking about what it must have been like for St. Juan Diego and Bishop Zumárraga, what they must have been experiencing.”

Rice also enjoyed a little alone time on the trip. Her husband, John, stayed home with their six young children so she could make her first pilgrimage.

“It was a large effort to make all of this happen,” she said. “He stayed home from work. I did get my own room. I loved it. I had my own bathroom and my own space.”

Rice also said the trip renewed her faith life and gave her a new energy.

“When I came home, I was like, ‘Where’s my Rosary?’ So maybe Our Lady’s working in me.”

Rosemary and Bob Popp, members of Assumption Parish in O’Fallon, also were among those who made their first pilgrimage to Mexico.

Rosemary Popp said that what was most striking to her on the trip was “the churches and the Masses. The buildings were really breathtaking.

“Every day was a different church, and they all had something special,” she said.

Popp’s cousin, she said, told her about the tilma years ago “and that it’s something you really should see if you can. It really was kind of like a fulfillment of a dream. It was definitely worth the trip.”

The pilgrimage was a family trip for the Langs — husband Gary, wife Lynne and son Joseph, a seminarian at Kenrick-Glennon Seminary. “It was one of the highlights of my life,” said Lynne Lang. “It is something that I will look back on years from now and say it was one of the most spiritually significant things that ever happened to me.”

The Langs, members of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque Parish in Oakville, knew Archbishop Burke when he was the bishop of La Crosse. Joseph, now almost 21, attended Holy Cross Seminary, the high school seminary in La Crosse. It was there they learned much about Our Lady of Guadalupe, as then-Bishop Burke led a project to create a shrine in La Crosse to Mary under that title. That shrine is to be formally dedicated in the summer of 2008.

“When we found out the archbishop was thinking about taking a trip to Guadalupe and was leading this group, there was no question but that we would go. It was one of the highlights of our lives. We were all so spiritually moved by the trip and by the presence of the archbishop,” Lynne Lang said.

“I would heartily recommend a pilgrimage to anyone, especially a pilgrimage with the archbishop. I think with Archbishop Burke as shepherd of a pilgrimage, his presence and his prayerfulness and his knowledge and his heart and his spirit and his accessibility — I can’t imagine anyone on that trip feeling anything other than that it was a wonderful opportunity. Archbishop Burke is without a doubt a true blessing for our archdiocese. We think as a spiritual role model and guide he is truly divinely inspired,” Lang said.

Julie Weber of St. Peter Parish in St. Charles called the pilgrimage to Mexico “very moving.”

“I felt so close to God. It was wonderful. And Archbishop Burke was a wonderful shepherd. We all grew so close, the people on the trip.”

Weber said during the pilgrimage she prayed for others, including a sick relative. Other pilgrimage participants prayed with her. “The Blessed Mother made me feel very calm about everything.”

This was not Weber’s first pilgrimage. “I went to Rome in 2003 for the beatification of Mother Teresa. I think that’s the only way to go, to take a pilgrimage. Everything else seems pretty frivolous unless God’s at the center of it. I recommend it to everyone.”

Joseph Keusenkothen also gave high praise to the pilgrimage to the Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe. A parishioner at St. Paul in Fenton, Keusenkothen said “It was great.”

He continued, “I read about it in the Review and thought it would be a good thing to do. This increased my faith in the Blessed Virgin and in conversion. Seeing the tilma itself and the churches — that was really interesting. And I enjoyed being with all these people.”

Carol Smith, a member of St. Clare of Assisi Parish in Ellisville, also learned about the pilgrimage by reading the Review.

“My husband couldn’t go, but a friend of mine from our parish — Pat McLeese — wanted to go, so I had someone to go with. It was simply wonderful.”

Smith said actually being at the historic shrine was very moving. “I knew something of the history behind it and about the tilma. When you see the tilma, it’s enclosed in glass, but you’ve seen the picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe so often you think at first, ‘oh, I’ve seen this.’ Then you suddenly realize — this is the tilma. This tilma is from 1531. It’s amazing it’s still there.”

Smith said the sheer size of the shrine was amazing. “Where the shrine is is such a huge area. I was just overwhelmed with all the people in the shrine praying. You feel like you are in a holy, holy place.”


God bless ArchBishop Burke.


85 posted on 06/19/2007 8:00:12 AM PDT by Nihil Obstat (Kyrie Eleison)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
I have read this too as you posted.I was sent a book in 1999 from a film committee.The name of the book is Prince of Eden written by Christine Jones.It describes the Dirty Papers,which I have read about before.Nican Mopohua was one of the documents used in the canonization of Juan Diego and that was written in 1545,”Called “Nican Mopohua” because of the exact chronological order in which it relates the various phases of the apparitions, this account is also the first and oldest written source on Guadalupe. It is considered a masterpiece of Nahuatl literature and was written by Don Antonio Valeriano .”http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:MjKxSxREiCYJ:campus.udayton.edu/mary/meditations/guadalupe.html+Nican+Mopohua&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us
Also found was the death certificate,http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:XKp6dfcAvn8J:www.livingmiracles.net/Guadalupe.html+Escalada,%E2%80%9D+death+certificate+of+Juan+Diego.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us.
86 posted on 06/19/2007 8:01:14 AM PDT by fatima (Remember our Troops with a little prayer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom
So does that mean that the article never appeared in the St Louis Review????

Try these references and see if they are real or just apparitions:

Joaquin Garcia Icazbalceta, "Juan Diego y las Apariciones del Tepeyac" (Mexico City: Publicaciones para el Estudio Cientifico de las Religiones, 2002), pp. 3-8.

Luis Alfonso Gamez, "Juan Diego ¿El santo que nunca existío?" Diario El Correo, July 27, 2002 (Bilbao, Spain).

Miguel Leon Portilla, Tomantzin-Guadalupe, Pensamiento Nahuatl y mensaje Cristiano (Mexico City: Fondo de Cultura Economica, 2000)

Manuel Olimon, La Búsqueda de Juan Diego (Mexico City: Plaza & Janes, 2002).

87 posted on 06/19/2007 8:08:49 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

You’re still not getting this.
I’m not doing your research. If you post information, it’s YOUR job to give the references, not mine.

I’m cutting you a break because you’ve been here for less than a year, but FRiend, the research is yours to verify your information. Unless you do that, you are just posting (the same) unverifiable stuff, yet disregard the afirmative references given to you.


88 posted on 06/19/2007 8:14:52 AM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom
You’re still not getting this. I’m not doing your research. If you post information, it’s YOUR job to give the references, not mine. I’m cutting you a break because you’ve been here for less than a year, but FRiend, the research is yours to verify your information. Unless you do that, you are just posting (the same) unverifiable stuff, yet disregard the afirmative references given to you.

I'm terribly sorry!!! but these are the references and I posted them for your benefit not mine ----------

89 posted on 06/19/2007 8:50:34 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Do you question Luther's notion of "The Bible Alone," which isn't mentioned in Scripture?

Of course I do. I also see examples of Christians who measured everything against Scripture. IOW, just because someone dictates something doesn't mean I believe it. Our Saviour Jesus Christ proved who he was for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

90 posted on 06/19/2007 9:42:40 AM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: pipeorganman; Uncle Chip; HarleyD
Do you really expect anyone to take this seriously? Your proof is from the Positive Atheism website.

Actually, yes. I noted my source and the page and the source you are mentioning I didn't look at.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the Bishop that was supposed to be involved in this event never wrote about it? I am making an assumption, but I think he was educated and could read and write.

91 posted on 06/19/2007 9:48:58 AM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

Those are not references unless one holds Amazon.com to be a reference source. Along with that, all but one are in Spanish.

For the sake of those Spanish impared readers, and those who would prefer not to buy four books to find the quotes you are stating, how about a nice link in English that all of us can read. Something from a non Atheist nor Secular Humanitanian website.

Google doesn’t have them from what I can see. Please give us a link to the quotes or they mean nothing.


92 posted on 06/19/2007 11:25:24 AM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

Sorry, all four are in Spanish.

Strikes me as being funny that none of this was picked up in the English speaking press, short of the Secular Humanitarian websites.

It’s kind of like quoting from “Spirit Daily”. One must verify everything with another source, that we here on English Speaking FR can read.

God Bless the Spanish speakers. Maybe one of them can help you.


93 posted on 06/19/2007 11:29:26 AM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: wmfights
Of course I do. I also see examples of Christians who measured everything against Scripture.

That's good, but not sufficient.

Our faith is in Christ, who is Truth itself. We must accept all the truths that Christ has revealed to us. So how do we acquire these truths? Through Bible-only Christians who lead exemplary lives? But their beliefs may be contradictory. The Bible? But if the Bible is the sole rule of faith, why do so many "Bible alone" Christians hold contrary beliefs?

"The pillar and foundation of truth," is Christ's Church. Therefore, what we believe about Christ and His teachings, in its fullness, must come through Christ's Church. To have full faith in Christ requires full consent to the teachings of his Church.

Jesus doesn't just want all men to be saved, but "wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4)

94 posted on 06/19/2007 12:08:26 PM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
It's the story of how the Catholic Church, just to test its strength, tried to show the world that it had the power to change reality by canonizing a man whom everyone in its inner circle knew never existed.

Wow. That's an amazing history for all with ears to hear.

"Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.

And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;

To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.

Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever." -- Deuteronomy 4:35-40


95 posted on 06/19/2007 12:25:31 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: fatima
Thanks for the links --- they were very interesting. This from one of them:

"In April 1990 Juan Diego was declared Blessed by the Vatican. The following month, during his second visit to the Basilica of Guadalupe, John Paul II performed the beatification ceremony. And finally in July 2002 Juan Diego was canonized, during a ceremony celebrated also by John Paul II, in the Basilica of Guadalupe.

"This event flared up a debate, which had been off and on since the 18th century about the historical authenticity of Juan Diego. Critics have argued that the Spanish Franciscans in Mexico make no mention of him or the alleged apparitions of Our Lady prior to 1648, raising questions as to why they would be silent about such an important event.

"The Vatican subsequently established a commission of 30 researchers from various countries to investigate the question. The results of their research were presented to the Vatican Congregation for the Causes of Saints on Oct. 28, 1998 and according to the commission it successfully proved that Juan Diego had indeed existed. Among the research documents submitted were 27 Indian documents regarding Guadalupe, which among other things contained the alleged death certificate of Juan Diego. Regarding the lack of historic evidence for nearly 20-years following the Guadalupe events, the researchers claimed that many Indian documents from that era were destroyed, in part due to a paper shortage, or lost in the great Mexico City fire of 1692.

"This evidence has however been questioned by other historians and a polemical spirit tends to prevail over documentary research regarding Juan Diego and the Guadalupe events."

96 posted on 06/19/2007 12:32:00 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
Battle of Lepanto

On October 7, 1571, a great victory over the mighty Turkish fleet was won by Catholic naval forces primarily from Spain, Venice, and Genoa under the command of Don Juan of Austria. It was the last battle at sea between "oared" ships, which featured the most powerful navy in the world, a Moslem force with between 12,000 to 15,000 Christian slaves as rowers. The patchwork team of Catholic ships was powered by the Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Knowing that the Christian forces were at a distinct material disadvantage, the holy pontiff, St. Pope Pius V called for all of Europe to pray the Rosary for victory. We know today that the victory was decisive, prevented the Islamic invasion of Europe, and evidenced the Hand of God working through Our Lady. At the hour of victory, St. Pope Pius V, who was hundreds of miles away at the Vatican, is said to have gotten up from a meeting, went over to a window, and exclaimed with supernatural radiance: "The Christian fleet is victorious!" and shed tears of thanksgiving to God.

What you may not know is that one of three admirals commanding the Catholic forces at Lepanto was Andrea Doria. He carried a small copy of Mexico's Our Lady of Guadalupe into battle. This image is now enshrined in the Church of San Stefano in Aveto, Italy. Not many know that at the Monastery of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Spain, one can view a huge warship lantern that was captured from the Moslems in the Battle of Lepanto. In Rome, look up to the ceiling of S. Maria in Aracoeli and behold decorations in gold taken from the Turkish galleys. In the Doges' Palace in Venice, Italy, one can witness a giant Islamic flag that is now a trophy from a vanquished Turkish ship from the Victory. At Saint Mary Major Basilica in Rome, close to the tomb of the great St. Pope Pius V, one was once able to view yet another Islamic flag from the Battle, until 1965, when it was returned to Istanbul in an intended friendly token of concord.

97 posted on 06/19/2007 12:39:31 PM PDT by Nihil Obstat (Kyrie Eleison)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
This is true from my research Uncle Chip.But there are the Diego files and the Nican Mopohua written by Valeriano at the request of the Bishop to record all the details that Juan could remember before his death.
98 posted on 06/19/2007 1:47:52 PM PDT by fatima (Remember our Troops with a little prayer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: Nihil Obstat
Here is more from a non Atheist website, aka Wikipedia:

As early as 1556 Francisco de Bustamante, head of the Colony's Franciscans, delivered a sermon disparaging the holy origins of the painting:

“The devotion that has been growing in a chapel dedicated to Our Lady, called of Guadalupe, in this city is greatly harmful for the natives, because it makes them believe that the image painted by Marcos the Indian is in any way miraculous.[24][2]”

In 1611 the Dominican Martin de Leon, fourth viceroy of Mexico, denounced the cult of the Virgin of Guadalupe as a disguised worship of the Aztec goddess Tonantzin.[2] The missionary and anthropologist Bernardino de Sahagún held the same opinion: he wrote that the shrine at Tepeyac was extremely popular but worrisome because people called the Virgin of Guadalupe Tonantzin. Sahagún said that the worshippers claimed that Tonantzin was the proper Nahuatl for "Mother of God" -- but he disagreed, saying that "Mother of God" in Nahuatl would be "Dios y Nantzin."[25]

In 2002, art restoration expert José Sol Rosales examined the icon with a stereomicroscope and identified calcium sulfate, pine soot, white, blue, and green "tierras" (soil), reds made from carmine and other pigments, as well as gold. Rosales said he found the work consistent with 16th century materials and methods.[26]

Guadalupe of ExtremaduraNorberto Rivera Carrera, Archbishop of Mexico, commissioned a 1999 study to test the tilma's age. The researcher, Leoncio Garza-Valdés, had previously worked with the Shroud of Turin. Upon inspection Garza-Valdés found three distinct layers in the painting, at least one of which was signed and dated. He also said that the original painting showed striking similarities to the original Lady of Guadalupe found in Extremadura Spain, and that the second painting showed another Virgin with indigenous features. Finally, Garza-Valdés indicated that the fabric on which the icon is painted is made of conventional hemp and linen, not agave fibers as is popularly believed.[27] The photographs of these putative overpaintings were not available in the Garza-Valdés 2002 publication, however.[28] Gilberto Aguirre a San Antonio optometrist and colleague of Garza-Valdés who also took part in the 1999 study, examined the same photographs and stated that, while agreeing the painting had been tampered with, he disagreed with Garza-Valdes' conclusions. Gilberto Aguirre claims the conditions for conducting the study were inadequate. No control of the lighting and the fact that the painting was shot through an acrylic plate scientifically invalidates any results. He also questions Garza-Valdés' claim of ultraviolet light revealing two underlying images because according to Aguirre, ultraviolet light can't penetrate sub-surfaces. The team did take Infrared pictures but those didn't show additional images underneath the present one. [29]

99 posted on 06/20/2007 6:23:39 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 97 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip; Nihil Obstat; fatima
And a little more from that non Atheist website known as Wikipedia:

Documentation

A number of primary historical documents are used to support this apparition account, including: the Nahuatl-language Huei tlamahuiçoltica or Nican mopohua ("here it is recounted"), a tract about the Virgin which contains the aforementioned story, and which was printed in 1649; a Spanish-language book about the apparitions titled Imagen de la Virgen María ("Image of the Virgin Mary"), printed in 1648; a seventeenth-century engraving by Samuel Stradanus which used the Virgin's image to advertise indulgences; and the Codex Escalada, a pictographic account of the Virgin on Tepeyac, printed on deerskin and said to date back to 1548.[1]

First page of the Nican Mopohua.The apparition account is also strengthened by a document called the Informaciones Jurídicas of 1666, a collection of oral interviews gathered near Juan Diego's hometown of Cuautitlan. In the "Informaciones Jurídicas," various witnesses affirmed, in interview format, basic details about Saint Juan Diego and the Guadalupan apparition story.[2]

Some historians and clerics, including the U.S. priest-historian Fr.Stafford Poole, the famous Mexican historian Joaquín García Icazbalceta, and former abbot of the Basilica of Guadalupe, Guillermo Schulenburg, have expressed doubts about the historicity of the apparition accounts. Schulenburg in particular caused a stir with his 1996 interview with the Catholic magazine Ixthus, when he said that Juan Diego was "a symbol, not a reality." [3][4]

One problem with the apparition tradition is that Juan Diego is said to have met the Virgin in 1531, while the earliest account about their meeting was published in 1648. When discussing the 117-year gap between the apparition and written accounts describing it, apparition believers point to the Codex Escalada, a recently-discovered document which illustrates the Tepeyac apparition and which dates to 1548. The document, a painting on deerskin which illustrates the apparition and discusses Juan Diego's death, was used to shore up Juan Diego's 1990s canonization process. Critics, including Stafford Poole and David A. Brading, find the document suspicious -- partly because of when it was discovered, and partly because it contains the handiwork of both Antonio Valeriano (a man many apparition partisans believe to be the true author of the Nican mopohua) and the signature of Bernardino de Sahagún, the Franciscan missionary and anthropologist. Brading said that:

Codex Escalada.Within the context of the Christian tradition, it was rather like finding a picture of St. Paul's vision of Christ on the road to Damascus, drawn by St. Luke and signed by St. Peter.[5]

Believers in the Codex counter that the Codex has been vetted by scientific tests which prove it is an authentic 16th-century document.[6]

Zumárraga was silent on the topic of the apparition: there is no mention of Juan Diego nor the Virgin in any of his writings. In a catechism written the year before his death he stated: “The Redeemer of the world doesn’t want any more miracles, because they are no longer necessary.[2]”. Furthermore, in 1531 Zumárraga was not Mexico's Archbishop but merely Bishop-elect: he would not be consecrated until 1533.[7]

Guillermo Schulenburg, the Basílica's abbot for over 30 years, declared in 1996 Juan Diego as a symbol and myth, a constructed character made to conquer the hearts of the native people and seize their religiosity in order to redirect it to the Vatican's will. He also commisioned a serious study, "out of sheer love for truth", which demonstrates the Lady of Guadalupe as a man-made painting, with no supernatural elements whatsoever. There is ample evidence of a 16th century shrine to Guadalupe at Tepeyac: however skeptics contend that this shrine was dedicated to the Spanish icon Our Lady of Guadalupe in Extremadura.

100 posted on 06/20/2007 6:45:26 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-118 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson