Posted on 06/23/2007 10:48:14 AM PDT by Salvation
I should have looked further. Nihil Obstat had your answer!
Didn’t know there was a Shroud ping list. Yes, you can put me on it.
Thanks, that is a great link!
I would think it would be a first classk, but I have no knowledge about this. Only a guess here.
Very interesting subject!
Wow! You are probably the person who could answer NYer’s question above in http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1855150/posts?page=13#13
**Yes, because holiness is transmitted.**
Then we can pray for our enemies in this way?
I don’t doubt there are miracles associated with the remains of saints or objects they touched in life, however, none of the verses cited show one bit of biblical evidence of anything like medieval Roman Catholic worship...yes worship...of these things. A miracle associated with Elijah’s body, the honoring of Joseph’s bones (which were promptly buried with his fathers...not set in a glass coffin in a place of worship...) or the miracles associated with things which touched St. Paul do not at all set a precedent for the weird focus on bones, fingers, bodies, clothing, etc. of saints—when our focus should be (and they would say so too) on their, and our Lord.
“her skeleton is gilded, bejeweled, and kept in a glass case. Fitted with glass eyes, she seems to stare at you from the beyond...”
Yes I’ve seen things like this in Europe—and they are some of the weirdest eerie things I’ve ever laid eyes on. I recall seeing a skull set on a silk pillow with a bejeweled crown on it, all in a guilded glass relicry...totally bizarre. And one never sees such practices by God’s people in the bible, period.
In scripture even touching a dead body meant ceremonial uncleanliness (one could not worship until one went through a time period of ceremonial cleaning lasting days, weeks or even months). There’s no evidence anyone in scripture went to tombs to pray! Just the opposite. One can honor saints, and their remains, and other objects associated with holy people without going to the extreme of weird veneration and yes worship, which our medieval ancestors were surely guilty of. As for me and my house, we’ll worship and venerate the Creator, not the creature...or his remains.
Hi, FReeper pal. Hope you’re well. This is FYI. I know this guy and he’s so neat:
Let is load up so you can hear Charlie preach a little. You’ll love him.
This is a Catholic thread. Thank you for your opinions, but please be kind in your remarks, and please to not flash other protestant links in from of us or I will have to ask the Religion Moderator to add the (Catholic Caucus) notation on the title.
BTW, analong,
Catholics do not worship these relics; they are there for prayer — asking them to pray for us in heaven where their soul is. (Although as the article states, the soul is not far from the body — hence the occurrence of numberous miracles beyond count.)
Oops
hence the occurrence of numerous miracles beyond count.)
This is not a closed thread.
My link is a Catholic Lay Evangelist that I know personally. He’s a Catholic, not a Protestant. I am confused. I thought you’d like to hear about Catholic evangelism. I am truly not trying to make you mad or anything.
Does this Catholic lay evangelist offend you? If so, why?
And why do you threaten to throw me off this thread? That is truly strange.
Believe me, after all the crappola I have had to take for being Mormon, this is the last thread where I expected to be criticized for posting.
Thanks for the ping!
My mistake and public apology. I did not recognize any of the names other than Mother Teresa and so thought it was a Protestant site.
So far it has remained fairly civil, but should that change — I will ask you to add the Catholic Caucus denotation.
Thanks.
I know what you mean I’ve read some of those threads.
I’m not inclined to change thread status when it has been posted for a long time - except of course for newcomers who are learning how to manage a thread. So, if you’d like to caucus this thread, let me know this evening or in the morning.
I have never flashed any links in, and I apologize if I was unnecessarily offensive. I realize Roman Catholics have always claimed never to worship relics, and draw an apparent line between veneration and worship...however I tend to apply the “duck test” over such things. (If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck...etc.) This being said, current Roman Catholic practice (vs. medieval) particularly in America, isn’t anything like as odd (in my opinion) as one sees in Latin America or Europe or other places—or which existed historically—particularly in the middle ages.
Followers of the bishop of Rome should know too, apologetically, your practices toward relics and statuary, etc. are a key bone of contention with other Christians. You don’t win points with anyone but other Roman Catholics, or Eastern Orthodox by pushing it...but again, I apologize if my response offended anyone.
My main point though is one doesn’t have to be a denier of miracles, or minimize the importance of the material world, or be an atheist anti-Christian, to be skeptical of the historic practices of venerating relics.
With regard to the assertion that medieval people worshipped the saints, there is no evidence that they did. Abbot Peter the Venerable explained the practice of using rich reliquaries as recognition that they shone like pearls in heaven and were worthy of such honor on earth awaiting the resurrection of the body. The practice of praying at tombs is as old as Christianty, and persecuted Roman early Christians celebrated meals in cemetaries very early. The tomb was place where the spiritual realm intersected with earth. Today, people show photos of cemeteries with lots of orbs. They say that the orbs are the spirits of the departed. The saints are also the heros and role models of the living God.
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