Posted on 07/10/2007 8:00:34 AM PDT by Bladerunnuh
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican said on Tuesday Christian denominations outside Roman Catholicism were not full churches of Jesus Christ.
Protestant leaders said this was offensive and would hurt inter-religious dialogue.
A 16-page document by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict once headed, described Christian Orthodox churches as true churches, but suffering from a "wound" since they do not recognize the primacy of Pope.
But the document said the "wound is still more profound" in Protestant denominations.
"Despite the fact that this teaching has created no little distress ... it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of 'Church' could possibly be attributed to them," it said.
The Vatican text, which restates the controversial document
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
Could be no brainwashing, hatred or jealosy involved. Might just be misunderstanding based on observation, without getting into the Church's teachings in depth.
When one imputes bad intent to everything that one hears or reads that is contrary to ones own beliefs, one misunderstanding can generate more misunderstanding. Imputing good intent costs nothing.
Attributing motives - or otherwise reading the mind of another Freeper - is "making it personal."
Are you sure you're not just assuming her motive is to make it personal?
Yes, I'm kidding... kinda bored, actually...
Every tenet of Christian faith only needs to know FOR A FACT John 3:16.
The rest, is details. But the founding idea is always John 3:16.
I would submit to you that the family is the most fundamental fact of our human heritage. John 3:16 merely reflects this foundational reality.
(re- all the statements about being a saint, a king, and a prophet through Christ.)
“The meek shall inherit the earth. Sheep on the right. The totality of the salvation of Christ’s Blood as a gift to all who would accept it.”
Any of that registering, SQ?
No, the very definition of “Christian” told me that.
Christ is the only thing that has every been of flesh deserving of worship. Before then, only God.
Family is important to *religion*.
Christ’s actions are important to the *True Religion*.
And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” - Revelation 19:10
Prayer is a form of worship as it pre-supposes omniscience, an attribute of God alone. Mary and those the Catholic Church calls saints are mere servants of the Living God.
Pope John Paul II: "...God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love..."
Did you ever notice the Bible begins and ends with a marriage? What is a marriage but a covenantal bonding... a joining of persons? In the story of creation, God makes His First Covenant with His creation in the seven days. Man breaks this covenant bond and alters creation. God gives man the protoevangelium (first Gospel) as a sign of what is to come and for hope. He then makes a succession of covenants with man through Noah, Abraham, Jacob (Israel), Moses and David. In each one, He expands His Family from Noah's family, to Abraham's household, to Jacob's tribe, to Moses's nation and, finally, to David's kingdom. He then opens His Family back to the whole human race through the perfect sacrifice of His Son as the sacrificial offering of the New Covenant (the seventh, perfect covenant). This event is witnessed in the Revelation to John as the final marriage in Rev 21:2 And I, John, saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
The Bible is all about family. The Trinity is best explained in terms of the family... in that, three are present and are yet One. Man is created in the image and likeness of God and was therefore not complete until he was given one to whom to cleave so that from them (through their love) would come new life. We don't emulate God in our stasis, we emulate Him in our life and the love we share in the family bond.
From this understanding, all of Catholic doctrine flows... the Sacraments, Mary, the Saints, the Pope. It all comes from understanding that God created us to be part of His Holy Family in Heaven. Just as the neighbor kid can't make himself part of your family, so you couldn't rejoin yourself to God... God had to come and reforge the bond between Heaven and Earth in the perfect covenantal offering of His unblemished Son.
The pope is but a bumpkin in q pope suit.
His pronouncements are but so much air on a breeze.
The pope is but a bumpkin in q pope suit.
His pronouncements are but so much air on a breeze.
Sorry. I couldn't help but hope that these first two steps might lead to something in Biblical teaching as well, but I suppose I should know better. First, the Pope is a higher critic himself; and second, Catholics have sort of adopted higher criticism as a reason to reject "sola scriptura," so now they think they have to defend it.
These terms are pre-christian. They were used in re Roman cultic worship.
no one said anything about that. I just stated simply people should mind their own business and keep their noses out of other peopls’s religions. Plain and simple.
Ah, but we would be remiss to note that both Judaism and Christianity (and even Islam...) start with this telling of succession of the bloodlines through family.
Jesus Himself points out that “loving thy neighbor” is the most important of the Commandments. Which also gives a nod to your assertion.
But: Without Jesus having been Jesus (and fulfilling His roll as the Christ) these words would have been of secondary importance. His Teachings are worthy of meditation and living- but only because of the source of the wisdom, Christ Everlasting.
The Message of the Bible is of Love. The bringer of that Message is Christ. The imporatance of Christ’s roll in this is why we are “Christians”. This explains my assertion that “Christians need to know this basic truth (John 3:16) and the rest is details.”
Without Christ’s Sacrifice, the message would just be coming from another in a line of prophets.
I think they've painted themselves into the corner on a bunch of things, but are blind to it, because they are what they are. I think some of them have some niggling doubts & it makes them unnaturally defensive. Those who defend the Church with more rigor than they do the faith are the ones I worry most about.
bumpus ad summum
You cling to John 3:16. It's a wonderful passage but it is not more wonderful than John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life: and the life was the light of men.
Here we discover Christ's identity as God Himself, the second person of the Holy Trinity.
What your theology lacks is the why and how. Jesus brought a Gospel of love but without His sacrifice, there was no redemption... no covenant. As John says, he who believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. What does it mean to "believe" and why will we have everlasting life? "Belief" means more than willingness to listen, it means following faithfully. We do, as Catholics, what Christ told us to do... not always understanding. It is because Jesus is the High Priest offering the sacrifice of Himself for His Bride, The Church, to be joined to Himself, the Bridegroom, as one flesh. You can not fully understand John 3:16 without understanding who Jesus is, what is the New Covenant and why the need for sacrifice. What I gave you above does all of those things. The everlasting life we are promised is the inheritance of sons as we are rejoined to God's Holy Family through Christ's covenantal offering.
I’m not “splitting hairs” with you.
My inital statement is more or less you final statement. Christianity is nothing without Christ.
Your initial retort to my statement was that Christianity is nothing without Family. You might as well say that it is nothing without Truth. Christ’s embodyment of God (and God embodying all things Holy) means that all are correct- but Christ is the focus of our mutual faiths.
No, it wasn't. That's why I chided you for not reading it. I identified our creation in the image and likeness of God as reaching its fulfillment in the family. Our understanding of God begins the same way the Bible begins and ends, with family bonds.
The difference in our positions is in understanding that Christ wasn't just saving sinners, He was rebuilding a family. We aren't pardoned criminals, we are adopted sons and daughters. Christianity isn't only about a sacrifice on the Cross for the expiation of sin but about the sacrificial offering of the New Covenant, reforging our familial bonds with God Himself.
It's a very important distinction and it reaches beyond simply memorizing one verse of one book of God's Library to embrace the whole of His Word.
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