Posted on 09/15/2007 11:47:41 AM PDT by restornu
Care to elaborate on what we have done?
In your post you used the phrase “evils of LDS” in reference to a thread in the religion forum. It was your phrase not mine.
If a thread were to start in the religion forum speaking of the “evils of LDS” I do not think there would be enough band with to cover such a discussion.
That was my point.
Do you really know much about the LDS faith, or just what you read on certain anti websites on the web? If you really knew us, you would realize that we are currently studying the New Testament in sunday school, all year long! Do you really think that is unique to a small group? It’s church wide my friend.
I would invite you to read Ezekiel 37:16-17 “ 16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 ¶ And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 ¶ And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes”
We know the stick of Judah to be the bible. Where’s the stick of Joseph? Devotion to the bible you say?
My experience is with the LDS I personally (family and friends) know as I have said previously.
You are free to believe the statement or not.
I find it interesting that you say every ward in every state is studying the exact same thing at the exact same time.
Does that not go to the direct point that there is no direction from the Holy Spirit for revelation or leading from God?
Seminary is sponsored by the LDS church. If you live outside Utah, then early morning Seminary is what teenagers from 14-18 attend. It can be at the local LDS church, or at a member's home. It is before school starts, and they teach New Testament, Old Testament, Book of Mormon, and the Doctrine & Covenants (also covers LDS church history.) In Utah, they have released time Seminary, which means that the LDS seminary building is next to the high school and junior high school (if the 9th graders are in junior high school.) The students register for Seminary, their parents sign a release form, and they attend a class daily that teaches the New Testament, Old Testament, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine & Covenants (also covers LDS Church history.) When I was a student, the state of Utah would give school credit for the Old and New Testament years, but the ACLU put an end to that.
And no, I didn't attend a private school. My dad was a teacher with 10 children. :) Seminary is open to anyone.
And for me, the Bible confirms the Book of Mormon, and the Book of Mormon confirms the Bible. From 2 Nephi 26 in the Book of Mormon
26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.From the Old Testament, in Joshua 24:15
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.From The Living Christ
As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago, we offer our testimony of the reality of His matchless life and the infinite virtue of His great atoning sacrifice. None other has had so profound an influence upon all who have lived and will yet live upon the earth.From one of my favorite hymns I Believe in ChristHe was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He "went about doing good" (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.
He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary's cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.
We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.
He rose from the grave to "become the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His "other sheep" (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised "dispensation of the fulness of times" (Ephesians 1:10).
Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: "His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
"I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father" (D&C 110:3–4).
Of Him the Prophet also declared: "And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
"For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
"That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God" (D&C 76:22–24). We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—"built upon the foundation of . . . apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Ephesians 2:20).
We testify that He will someday return to earth. "And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together" (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.
We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son.
1. I believe in Christ; he is my King!Finally, from John 14:27, this is the Christ I believe in:
With all my heart to him I’ll sing;
I’ll raise my voice in praise and joy,
In grand amens my tongue employ.
I believe in Christ; he is God’s Son.
On earth to dwell his soul did come.
He healed the sick; the dead he raised.
Good works were his; his name be praised.
2. I believe in Christ; oh blessed name!
As Mary’s Son he came to reign
’Mid mortal men, his earthly kin,
To save them from the woes of sin.
I believe in Christ, who marked the path,
Who did gain all his Father hath,
Who said to men: “Come, follow me,
That ye, my friends, with God may be.”
3. I believe in Christ—my Lord, my God!
My feet he plants on gospel sod.
I’ll worship him with all my might;
He is the source of truth and light.
I believe in Christ; he ransoms me.
From Satan’s grasp he sets me free,
And I shall live with joy and love
In his eternal courts above.
4. I believe in Christ; he stands supreme!
From him I’ll gain my fondest dream;
And while I strive through grief and pain,
His voice is heard: “Ye shall obtain.”
I believe in Christ; so come what may,
With him I’ll stand in that great day
When on this earth he comes again
To rule among the sons of men.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
thanks for your reply.
The LDS believe the Lord has define who he is and his Godhead and all are one in mind but are separate personages.
When reading the scriptures one should be observant of the different meanings how the word flesh is being used.
****
Before the restoration of all of things was restored through Joseph Smith by our Lord Jesus Christ!
There was no discernment in reading the scriptures or to distinguish the quality of one Kingdom from another.
With the lack of this knowledge it would cause man to stumble in his understanding between the different of Kingdoms and things and this shaded one whole out come in reading the scriptures.
In Geneses 2 let us read and observed carefully for Adam and Eve are still in the Garden of Eden a kingdom (in an eternal state) whose laws that are different from earth which is corporal kingdom (subject to death).
In the Garden of Eden is a Body of Flesh and Bone (eternal), leaving the Garden of Eden one becomes subject to death and so the Body changes to Flesh and Blood (corporal subject to death).
Gen. 2
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (eternal promise)
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
In this eternal state before the fall Adam and Eve are still in the Garden of Eden so they are Flesh and Bone. So in verse 24 when they say one Flesh they are still in a perfect state unless they should fall than they receive a Body of Flesh and Blood.
When reading Eph 5 notice in verse 30 the Lord is not talking about the union as temporal flesh but in they make a covenant with the Lord and the promise of eternal body of Flesh and Bone
Eph 5
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one (*in mind) flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
*While on earth our minds are to become one with Christ so someday our corporal bodies become eternal bodies and we are restored to our heritage of the resurrected body of Flesh and Bone to reside in the Celestial Kingdom only in the CK are eternal bodies of male and female.
Those who lived the lesser laws have no gender and are appointed as Angels subject to those who have been exhausted.
Matt. 22: 30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mark 12: 25
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Luke 20: 35
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
D&C 132: 16, 18
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
So many have wrestled with D&C 132 and applying all kinds of means that were subject to man finite mind. in this LDS Caucus there is a talk given that explains these things what it means eternal covenant, some were trying to apply plural marriage as being mandatory for exaltation but as on listens carefully that really was not the case, the covenant marriage is between man and God covenant.
By listening carefully one will have a clearer understanding!
The Importance of Marriage and Family and the Great Plan of Happiness (LDS Caucus)
This thread is for civil discussions only!
Maybe you did click on the link and watched the video talk in how this was acheived!
Do you understand much about the Spirit and/or revelation? or are you just yanking my chain? What does the fact that the same lesson is taught throughout the land have to do with the Spirit or revelation being involved?
All I can say about your LDS “friends” is they must not go to church much if they haven’t learned about the bible.
BTW, what is the stick of Joseph?
Resty, the Bible is clear that ‘the life is in the blood.’ Adam became a living Nephesh, a ‘living soul’, thus name changed to a Neshamah. Living things have a Nephesh. Only humankind are living nephesh, spirit added by God.
Exactly.
Oh, and another thing LDS don’t go to church they go to ward.
You tell me about the “stick of Joseph” since its such and issue for you.
Um, OK. That is your perception. I do listen and hear the Spirit. That is how I know what I believe is true. If you look at the manuals, we are urged to study and pray. Which I do. I cannot deny what I know to be true. I will let Christ judge me at the last day. Thanks for your concern, I know it is well meant.
Sorrry I am not following your dispute!
I go to church, that’s what we call it. The LDS congregations are called wards. The ward is the basic ecclesiastical unit in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I’m off to bed. Good discussions this evening.
Wow. Did you get that from your LDS friends as well? Do you realize how you embarrass yourself when you make such errant claims? No offense, but you’ve got to do better research if nothing else than for your reputation.
According to you, we don’t know much about the bible. You portray yourself as someone who does. I’m interested in your take. Do you know, or are you just trying to divert?
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