Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, by the historian Sergio Luzzatto, draws on a document found in the Vatican's archive.
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The document reveals the testimony of a pharmacist who said that the young Padre Pio bought four grams of carbolic acid in 1919.
"I was an admirer of Padre Pio and I met him for the first time on 31 July 1919," wrote Maria De Vito.
She claimed to have spent a month with the priest in the southern town of San Giovanni Rotondo, seeing him often.
"Padre Pio called me to him in complete secrecy and telling me not to tell his fellow brothers, he gave me personally an empty bottle, and asked if I would act as a chauffeur to transport it back from Foggia to San Giovanni Rotondo with four grams of pure carbolic acid.
"He explained that the acid was for disinfecting syringes for injections. He also asked for other things, such as Valda pastilles."
The testimony was originally presented to the Vatican by the Archbishop of Manfredonia, Pasquale Gagliardi, as proof that Padre Pio caused his own stigmata with acid.
It was examined by the Holy See during the beatification process of Padre Pio and apparently dismissed.
Padre Pio, whose real name was Francesco Forgione, died in 1968. He was made a saint in 2002. A recent survey in Italy showed that more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary. He exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911.
The new allegations were greeted with an instant dismissal from his supporters. The Catholic Anti-Defamation League said Mr Luzzatto was a liar and was "spreading anti-Catholic libels".
Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."
Thank you! :-)
The question has been answered by you and others fully. There is only one reason it keeps being asked: Trolling. I suggest, do not feed the trolls. But the next time I see this stuff being done to an interesting Catholic thread, I will hit the abuse button. This is nothing but trolling abuse of Catholics.
I suspect protestants do this because they have no peace among themselves, and nit pick over their beliefs so much, and envy Catholic clarity.
Sorry if I offended you, I didn’t mean to. Like I wrote before, I am just trying to understand your religion. The way I learn is to ask questions. There are Catholics here answering my questions, and pointing out various answers for me. Truthfully, I wouldn’t have a clue where to look online for these answers. :-)
I’m sorry for your loss. :*(
I’m glad you find comfort in talking to him and kissing his picture. Losing your husband has to be a horrible thing to go through. :*(
Pointing is no problem. Pictures and statues are representations of the persons we honor, just as a photograph represents your loved one. This is true at Catholic festivals, when statues, representing Christ or the Saint are present.
Maybe we need to start posting these!
Troll Alert!
Don't Feed the TrollsI’m not sure why you are angry with me, because I have only been asking honest questions, trying to get (and getting) honest answers from people who would know those answers firsthand—much better to me than a dull text somewhere...you have been very sarcastic toward me, and like I posted, I’m sorry you are feeling so defensive. I’m not attacking Catholicism, I’m trying to understand it better. That’s all. No secret agenda from me on this thread, thanks.
Hide your trolling behind a Catholic? Please. Start a vanity thread, ask the questions you have, if that is truly your purpose. I can assure you, you’ll get all the discussion you want. As far as I recall, you were one of the FIRST to take this thread off topic.
Run along sonny. And next time, don’t derail the topic. You are not too stupid to use google, or start a vanity thread, I hope.
You’re welcome. :-) Just happened upon it surfing awhile back, and when someone posted ‘Catholics don’t pray to saints’ I remembered it and listed it here. Glad you like it! :-)
Try www.catholic.com
It is a truly great site!
'Nother psst: ain't no perfect Catholics. Some pretty good ones, I guess ....)
It's not so much whether one CAN as why one would want to. But yeah, rarely in our "required" liturgical worship is anyone but some person or other of the Trinity addressed. Sometimes Mary is addressed, but rarely. In my parish at the Easter Vigil we have a litany of the saints and ask a whole WAD of saints to pray for us and for those about to be baptized. Other than that, there's not any expectation.
But the other side of it is an increasing sense of having a BUNCH of friends and fellow warriors. - and of finding them where one least expects it. My personal image of myself is that asking French women to pray for me is certainly not something I would do of my own accord. But somehow I find that the stern and simple Catherine Laboure or the deceptively child-like Terese of Lisieux are good friends. It runs against ALL my inclinations, and my own "conceit" of myself is that if anything (or anyone) I would be affiliated with Polycarp or John the Evangelist, or John of Damascus (There was a thinker!) -- certainly not someone FRENCH, for crying out loud!
But when I go up against all the temptations and tests of everyday life, I find to my surprise that, as I pray mostly to Jesus, I have Catherine and Terese rooting for me. I am surrounded not with a silently watching cloud of witnesses, but with friends who, when I stumble, rush to the track to encourage me, who give me advice and help, who assure me that I am in their prayers.
It's quite remarkable. I wasn't thinking much about the intercession of the saints when I became Catholic. I was thinking about obeying Jesus. But I have found friends.
I am saying this soppy stuff to try to give a "feel" of what our piety to the saints is. I could almost say that my feeling about Catherine Laboure is in many ways very much like my feeling about a sergeant I had once. He was very different from me, but we both share a commitment to excellence and to caring even for the bad guys. And he's very wise about fighting. He's a good man to have on our side.
I don't mean this to be persuasive but descriptive.
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Hell - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Intercession of the Saints - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Thanks for the reply. This isn’t the thread to debate the issue, I just wasn’t familiar with that usage.
BTW, there are Bilbical references in those links, not just information about the Early Church Fathers and their beliefs.
That canonization carries infallible papal authority is not clear. A few theologians have asserted it does, but the Church has never ruled one way or the other.
It ain't. It's kind of pre-theology. Paul was not as troubled as I am about rigorous logical consistency. He was great. I am not.
Your answer was a straw man. You don’t think Christ KNEW beforehand His death would allow the saved to be in heaven? Of course He knew. He could have easily instructed people to pray that way knowing this.
Instead we find Christ, when He was directly asked by the apostles, “Lord, how should we pray?” and He said, “Our Father,.....” It’s a reliable example from Jesus’ own lips to pray to God, our Heavenly Father, directly.
In Christ's Most Holy Name, what does that have to do with Padre Pio?
Still trashing the thread, and feeling so victimized by my sarcasm?
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