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1 posted on 11/02/2007 2:40:05 PM PDT by maryz
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To: AnAmericanMother; sneakers; Mercat; ninenot

A look at American hymns by a former Anglican.


2 posted on 11/02/2007 2:41:11 PM PDT by maryz
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To: maryz
I'm having some problems with music in Catholic America.

Hey, join the club!!!
As the problems that some of us Protestant/non-denom Christians
have with "contemporary" music in our churches...
surely must equal or exceed your objections to what is going
on in your sanctuaries/churches/cathedrals!!!

(That is said with friendly, joint concern over "sacred music" that
I suspect a lot of Catholic and non-Catholics share!)
3 posted on 11/02/2007 2:47:44 PM PDT by VOA
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To: maryz; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Great post!


11 posted on 11/02/2007 3:36:33 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: maryz

Here’s a suggestion, dump ALL the hymns and go back to a sung Liturgy like The Church, Latin and Eastern did until Vatican II (with the exception of “low masses”) and the East still does.


12 posted on 11/02/2007 3:42:32 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: maryz

What’s a hymn for? How should we know. Haven’t heard one in thirty years.


18 posted on 11/02/2007 4:21:31 PM PDT by LordBridey
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To: maryz
My problem is that I am actually unfamiliar with most of the music in American Catholic Churches because I have lived abroad for so long.

Rejoice, and be glad! What we have are what sound like pop songs and nursery rhymes with trite, silly words ( I won't dignify them by calling them "lyrics").

Another problem are hymns that simply put Scripture verses to music. "I am the bread of life...he who comes to me shall not hunger...etc" Again, the music may be pleasant and the words of Scripture are undeniably wonderful and true...

And made wonderfully politically correct, too (and I'm speaking specifically about "I am the bread of life")! What a bargain!

I've begun a big collection of Gregorian chant and sacred Medieval and Renaissance polyphony CDs. It's so beautiful there's no comparison.

19 posted on 11/02/2007 4:25:56 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod
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To: maryz

Sometimes ear plugs and a rosary are the best alternative.
Hopefully future generations will have the fine, prayerful chants and other music that we had fifty years ago.


23 posted on 11/02/2007 4:46:50 PM PDT by rogator
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To: maryz

This thread is ridiculous. Flat out ridiculous. You’re bitching about hymns that say ‘Follow Me’ or ‘I will comfort you”? For real?


24 posted on 11/02/2007 4:49:11 PM PDT by ShadowDancer ("To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.")
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To: maryz

I don’t think this will turn into a Catholic - Protestant fight. The problem is the same on both sides of the river.


26 posted on 11/02/2007 5:39:01 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: maryz
Finally, it seems to me that the underlying problem with the contemporary hymns is an almost universal lack of understanding in the modern American Catholic Church about what Mass is in the first place.

We’ll get it right when the priest and the people face the same direction in a posture of jointly offering this unbloody sacrifice of Christ to the Father: in Christ, through Christ and with Christ. Until that happens...It’s all about US!

36 posted on 11/02/2007 8:47:32 PM PDT by veritas2002
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To: maryz

He’s preaching to the choir here. :-)

Some of the modern Catholic hymns are sappy social justice
guitar-strumming feelgoodism. They are from (Oregon OCP???).

The hynmals need to keep the old time hymns that are better grounded both musically and spiritually. And it wouldnt hurt to import Anglican hymns as part of that.


38 posted on 11/02/2007 10:22:44 PM PDT by WOSG (Pro-life, pro-family, pro-freedom, pro-strong defense, pro-GWOT, pro-capitalism, pro-US-sovereignty)
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To: maryz
What's a hymn for?

That's easy -- a her :)

But it also seems that with the elimination of a lot of the old "hymns" from the churches, the pews are now primarily filled with "hers".

45 posted on 11/03/2007 5:50:10 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: maryz

I agree with you whole-heartedly. Most of the songs in churches today are so sappy and then I feel somewhat self-conscious because I’m not singing along with the congregation.

I leave the service feeling like I should have been standing on a mountain with a Coca-Cola in my hand, teaching the world to sing.


47 posted on 11/03/2007 5:58:01 AM PDT by senorita
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To: maryz

I can help this convert out!

The Mass is supposed to be sung. That is the priest, choir and congregations are supposed to sing or chant the prayers and responses of the Mass. Over the centuries, until the 20th century, this is how the liturgy was celebrated and there were no hymns in it. Hymns were added to the Mass during the first half of the twentieth century when many churches started celebrating “dialogue” Masses (which were in Latin), in which the prayers and responses were spoken by the priest and the congregation.

The use of hymns became even more popular after Vatican II and in most places hymns have replaced the singing or chanting of the parts of the Mass, which was not something that the Council Fathers had wanted. The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy decreed that Gregorian chant was to have “pride of place” in the liturgy but it gave permission for other forms of music to be used as long as they were truly sacred and liturgical. Well, the rest is history as they say. The liturgists and music experts dumped Gregorian chant faster than you can “St. Louis Jesuits,” and they introduced traditional Protestant hymns and soon after, folk songs and much new, but banal, music into the Mass. And Fr. Longenecker is right. Many of the contemporary songs that are used in Mass are not only too hard for congregations to sing, they are doctrinally unsound.

There is a solution, of course, and that is for parish music directors to re-introduce Gregorian chant into the Mass. It can be done and it should be done in Latin. Chant is not too hard for people to learn and bringing it back into the Mass would do much to restore the beauty and solemnity of the liturgy. After all, the chant is the liturgy sung: it is the words of the liturgy put to music and, therefore, the most appropriate form of music to use during the Mass. Chant promotes a greater participation of the congregation in the Mass and it eliminates the need to sing hymns. And, just as an added bonus, it would mean the end of “guitar” Masses or “folk” Masses.


49 posted on 11/03/2007 6:53:36 AM PDT by steadfastconservative
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To: maryz

What ever happened to the wonderful hymn “Oh Lord, I Am Not Worthy” sung at communion time? I loved that hymn because it focused on our relationship to our Lord and on the presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. It was a properly humbling song.


51 posted on 11/03/2007 8:54:03 AM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: maryz

The 1940 Episcopal Hymnal, used at Our Lady of Walsingham, is perhaps even superior to the later version. All the golden oldies including one of my special favorities, the old Fannie Havergal classic, “Take My Life and Let it Be, Consecrated, Lord to Thee”. The only thing missing is the greatest Easter Hymn ever (IMHO), “Thine Be the Glory, Risen, Conquering Son” (sung to Judas Maccabeus, by Handel). We have to sing it printed in the service leaflet.


53 posted on 11/03/2007 11:29:22 AM PDT by Theophane
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To: maryz
The newer stuff tends to be dumbed down, sentimental and weak.

The heart of the problem.

Banality is a very effective means of lessening reverence, morale and, ultimately, faith.

74 posted on 11/05/2007 8:00:16 AM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: maryz
Surely a hymn is first, and foremost part of our worship. That means the words are words that we use to address our praise, adoration and worship of God.

***************

Amen. I guess it sometimes takes "new eyes" to see.

78 posted on 11/05/2007 8:17:25 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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