Pope voices 'closeness' to Iraqis

AFP ^ | November 24, 2007

[NYer]

VATICAN CITY (AFP) — Pope Benedict XVI said Saturday that by elevating the patriarch of Babylon for the Chaldeans to the rank of cardinal he wished to express his spiritual closeness and affection for Iraqis.

By inducting Emmanuel III Delly into the College of Cardinals, "I intend to express in a concrete way my spiritual closeness and my affection for these people," the pope said at a Vatican ceremony creating 23 new cardinals.

"I think now with affection of communities entrusted to your care and, especially, to those most tried by suffering, challenges and difficulties of various kinds," he said.

"Among them, how can one not turn one's gaze with apprehension and affection, in this moment of joy, to the dear Christian communities in Iraq?" he asked, drawing loud applause from the prelates assembled in Saint Peter's Basilica.

"These brothers and sisters of the faith are experiencing in the flesh the dramatic consequences of a lasting conflict and live in a fragile and delicate political situation," he said.

Emmanuel III, the 80-year-old spiritual leader of Iraqi Christians, said Friday that the honour was for "all Iraqis."

"The title of cardinal that the pope has accorded me is not for my poor self alone but for all Iraqis, both those who still live in our tortured country and those who have emigrated," he told reporters.

"I will continue to serve Iraq and all the ethnic and religious groups of the country who should be united. I will serve my country, Iraq, to the last drop of my blood," he said.

Emmanuel III said Benedict had referred to his nomination as a "sign of reconciliation ... between Christians and all the Muslims, whether Sunni or Shiite."

The pope has repeatedly called for dialogue between Christians and Muslims to combat intolerance and violence.

[NYer]

AP - Fri Nov 23, 10:19 AM ET

Emmanuel III Delly, the Chaldean patriarch of Baghdad, leaves at the end of a session of prayer and reflection with the College of Cardinals led by Pope Benedict XVI, at the Vatican Friday Nov. 23, 2007. Cardinals from around the world have arrived in Rome for a ceremony Saturday to elevate 23 new churchmen to their ranks - and to get a firsthand readout on an important new development in Catholic-Orthodox relations. Delly is one of the 23 churchmen. (AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia)

[NYer]

Still too early in the day for photos of the Patriarch in his red Cardinal’s hat.

[NYer]

Here you go!

Reuters - Sat Nov 24, 7:58 AM ET New cardinal Patriarch Emmanuel III Delly of Iraq receives the red biretta from Pope Benedict XVI during the Consistory ceremony in Saint Peter's Basilica at the Vatican November 24, 2007. The 23 prelates elevated to the College of Cardinals by Pope Benedict on Saturday join the most exclusive group in the Roman Catholic Church, a kind of hand-picked Senate that elects the next pontiff. REUTERS/Tony Gentile (ITALY)

[kellynla]

With all due respect to our Pope, the only “dialogue” the muzzies are interested in is a jihad. And sooner or later, we are going to have to give the muzzies the jihad they so desperately want. And this time, we will finish the job.

Semper Fi,
Kelly

“Invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.”
A.C. Coulter

[livius]

I think the Pope is giving them every opportunity to change their ways and call off the jihad, and I think this is a good thing. Whether they do or not is up to them; but the aggression and violence should not be or start on our side. (Although I certainly think we have the right to fight back to prevent ourselves from being destroyed, if they attack.)

Life for Iraqi Christians must be very difficult, and I’m glad the Pope showed that he is aware of this.

[Ramcat]

God can make a way
Where there seems to be no way.

[kellynla]

“if they attack?”

I hope I don’t have to document here the many “attacks” we have suffered at the hands of the muzzies...which may I remind you date back several HUNDRED YEARS...
ya know the Marine Corps was created to protect the Navy and combat the Barbary Pirates who were after all...anyone? anyone...Muzzies! And of course the Crusades were brought about to combat the Muzzies.

Semper Fi,
Kelly

[livius]

Yes, all that is true. Islam began its attacks 1400 years ago, with its very foundation, because “jihad’ is part and parcel of it. But what I am saying is that the Pope is trying to give them a chance to rethink it now, in the face of modern realities, communications, etc. It’s up to them.

Personally, I doubt that they’ll change. Islam is not a religion but a political system, one of the bases of which is the use of a religious aspect to give it the appearance of legitimacy. A religion might be called to reexamine some of its more violent practices, but a political system that extends itself those very violent practices is going to turn deaf ears to such a call.

However, as long as Islam masquerades as a religion, I think the Pope is right to call it to reexamine itself under those terms.

[kellynla]

The Pope can give the muzzies all the “chances” he likes but he doesn’t live where people are being slaughtered and we do!
And one more 9/11 type terrorist attack in America and every muzzie will have to pack up his koran & family go back to whatever hellhole they originated from...
our ancestors didn’t risk life & limb to emigrate to this country just so a bunch of camel jockeys could come here, terrorize our women & children and make hamburger out of our families! Sooner or later, we going to have to “take out the trash!”

Semper Fi,
Kelly

[livius]

Actually, the Church does live where people are being slaughtered by Islam (to a much greater extent than here in the US), and this is the reason he is asking Islam to rethink its ways.

I don’t think it will, and I think at some point, there will be Islamic attacks either on the US or on some European country that will make it impossible to keep treating these as isolated events done by extremist lone-wolves, which is what we are doing now. However, so far we have not been attacked by an Islamic state, and until that happens, we probably will not respond any more than we have done to date (take out a sympathetic government that had provided a staging ground for jihadis).

But the Pope is not in charge of any armies, and would not be in charge of any response. So I think he’s doing all he can right now. I think the chances are slim to non-existent that Islam will drop jihad as its primary motor of expansion. But even in the US, until we’re attacked by a state, we’re not going to respond. Sadly, the jihadis are well aware of this and plan to do as much damage as they can in the meantime.

[kellynla]

“Actually, the Church does live where people are being slaughtered by Islam (to a much greater extent than here in the US)”

Of course it does!
Iraq for starters where the Muzzies have no problem with Christians liberating them but have a reeeeeeeeeel problem with Christians, crosses, crucifixes and churches!!

My point was the POPE doesn’t LIVE where Christians are being massacred! Muzzies don't comprehend dialogue!

"Pope is not in charge of any armies"

well the popes sure initiated the Crusades and that is exactly what should happen again...and this time, the job should be finished once and for all!

Gotta go...have a good one!

[Ottofire]

Hey, its all good. The RCC teaches that they worship the same deity that the muslims do. So in Iraq, it is just internecine infighting, not persecution of Christians.

[kellynla]

Christian Persecution in Iraq Intensifies

“Christians are fleeing Iraq in record numbers, while Muslims in southwest Baghdad are threatening them with death by beheading if they do not convert. The uneasy peace that Saddam Hussein had maintained for years between one of the oldest Christian populations in the Middle East and Iraqi Muslims has broken down, and Chaldean Catholic Patriarch Emmanuel III Delly, the spiritual leader of Iraq’s Catholics, blames the United States: “The Americans came to Iraq without our consent. God does not appreciate what you have done and are doing in our country... Let us hope that the Lord enlightens these people so that they may stop violating the rights of all Iraqis.”The patriarch mentioned in particular the American occupation of Babel College, a Catholic college in Baghdad run by the Chaldean Catholic Church. U.S. troops have turned the college into a military base over the objections of the Catholic Church.

Patriarch Delly made his remarks at the celebration of a Catholic liturgy on May 6, responding in part to the growing reports of persecution, and even martyrdom, of Christians throughout Iraq. In the past, the patriarch has estimated that as many as half of Iraq’s Christians have fled the country since the U.S. invasion in March 2003. Now, the Asia Times reports that the majority of the remaining Christians in Iraq live in Dora, a neighborhood of southwest Baghdad, where they are increasingly terrorized by Sunni Muslims: If you are a Christian and you want to keep living in Dora, you must convert to Islam. Not only that, you must also cooperate with al-Qaeda in Iraq, and must accept al-Qaeda refugees into your house when they are trying to escape hot pursuit. If you refuse, you will be killed. Some who do not convert are allowed to pay what is known as a dhimmi tax—a fee for being a Christian or a Jew in an area run by Muslims: By some perverted math, al-Qaeda in Iraq has established that if you don’t want to convert, you must pay $1,600 per person - plus the assurance that you won’t denounce anything concerning al-Qaeda in Iraq’s activities.Patriarch Delly’s denunciation of Christian persecution in Iraq has been echoed by other Christian leaders, including the Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East and the Syrian-Orthodox Bishop of Aleppo.”
http://catholicism.about.com/b/2007/05/11/christian-persecution-in-iraq-intensifies.htm

[kellynla]

Christian Persecution in Iraq Getting Worse
By Sarah Pollak and Lee Webb
CBN News
July 27, 2007

Christians in Iraq are facing severe persecution from Islamic radicals.That’s the message a minister from Baghdad delivered to a committee on religious freedom in Washington.

“They have been, as we heard earlier, kidnapped, killed, tortured, massacred.”

The Reverend Canon Andrew White testified Tuesday at this hearing of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom.

White leads an Anglican Church in Baghdad. Though it started small, the church has grown to 1,300 people in recent years.

“It is an Anglican church, and none of my people are Anglicans,” White said. “They simply come to church because it is the closest church to come to in the midst of great danger.”

Rep. Anna Eshoo, D-Calif., is the only Assyrian Christian member of Congress.

Se testified that nearly half of all Iraqi Christians have fled the country due to intense persecution since the beginning of the war in 2003.

“They represent the oldest surviving Christian population in the world and one that, without help, is literally facing the brink of extinction,” Eshoo said.

Recently, things have gotten even worse.

Watch the video above for this full report plus an interview with Nina Shea, a member from the Commission on International Religious Freedom.

“In the last three or four months, things have deteriorated very considerably. Things are bad for everybody in Iraq,” White said.

White says he was given some disturbing news at a congregational meeting this month.

“I said to them, tell me what has happened over the past week. And the people went through what had happened and I realized that 36 of my congregation in that past week had been kidnapped. None of them have been returned.”

White also says Iraq’s government is weak and corrupt and that U.S. troops have failed to protect Iraqi Christians.

http://www.christiansofiraq.com/iraqipersecuitonjul287.html

[Ottofire]

Again, the Pope himself says the RCC worships Allah. This is just another Dominican vs Franciscan thing. Just keep walking, nothing to see.

All sarcasm aside, this is something that the state department needs to get on. We allow this, we might as well let them get on killing each other to ease the pressure on the Christians.

[kellynla]

As I have repeatedly said for years, sooner or later we are going to have to give the muzzies the jihad they so desperately want...and this time, we’ll finish the job!

Semper Fi,
Kelly

[NYer]

Kelly, perhaps you missed this thread posted only a few days ago.

Iraqi Christians Return to Worship in St. John’s Church

As for you, Otto,

the Pope himself says the RCC worships Allah.

Guess you missed this thread.

**Rick Warren, Evangelicals, Invite Muslims to Love God Together**

The letter’s main emphasis is the “absolutely central” commonality between both religions: love of God and love of neighbor.

[kellynla]

“Kelly, perhaps you missed this thread posted only a few days ago.”

The link you provided is wrong.
It doesn’t have anything to do with
“Christians returning to St. John’s Church” as the title suggests.

But I know the article you are referring to .

You mean this article,

“From charging ‘rent,’ al-Qaida’s harassment escalated to killing Christians, and also Muslims. Untold thousands of Christians and Muslims fled Baghdad in the wake of the darkness of civil war. Most of the Christians are gone now; having fled to Syria, Jordan or Northern Iraq.”

I didn’t miss it.

And I have also had personal information from one of the Chaldean bishops who told me that if Americans knew what was happening to Christians in the Middle East; it would make you throw up! So lets not all get warm & fuzzy because the muzzies allowed one church in Baghdad to open and a few token & questionable Christians to show up...

With ten percent of the muzzie population wanting Israel wiped off the map and every non-muzzie d...e...a...d!
The muzzie trash still needs to be taken out and it will not be done unless we and/or the Israelis do it!

Semper Fi,
Kelly

"Invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."
Ann Coulter

[NYer]

The link you provided is wrong. You mean this article.

No ... that is not the article. Apparently, I inverted the links. Here is the proper article:

Iraqi Christians Return to Worship in St. John’s Church

There was another posted to the News Forum showing Muslims assisting Catholics as they erected a Cross over the Church of St. John and then attending the services. If I find that story, I'll link it to you.

And I have also had personal information from one of the Chaldean bishops who told me that if Americans knew what was happening to Christians in the Middle East; it would make you throw up!

I'm not getting all fuzzy over anything, but I do know that Pope JPII visited Lebanon and called it a model for the Middle East where Christians and Muslims can co-exist. Though RC, I attend a Maronite Catholic Church. Our pastor is from Lebanon. He has confronted 'ecumenical RC leaders' who suggest that Islam is a religion of peace, by citing various Suras from the Koran - in both English and Arabic.

The point I would like to make is that the Holy Father has taken a precise and skillfully calculated approach to addressing the situation. In October of this year, 138 Muslim scholars wrote to the pope. Here is the report from Asia News.

Beirut (AsiaNews) – The Letter by 138 Islamic academics to the pope and Christian leaders is a first positive step towards dialogue, which however needs to become more universal and more concrete.

The Letter of 138 Muslim scholars to the Pope and Christian Leaders

As we both know only too well, life (hence change) in the Middle East progresses at a much slower pace than in the West. Their history is far more ancient than ours; hence their resistance to cultural change will rear its head at anything Western. Let's give the Holy Father credit for his intellectual acumen and celebrate with Chaldean Patriarch Emmanuel Cardinal Delly, his new title. May God bless him and ALL who live in Iraq, be they Catholic, Christian, Jew or Muslim.

[livius]

Islam will never change, and I think this Pope - who is the only modern world leader to have challenged Islam - knows it. The violence and negativity of Islam is written in its scriptures, and that is the reason that when individual Muslim societies show signs of attempting to change, other more orthodox Muslims come along and overrun and suppress them. When Muslims are not attacking Christians, they are attacking other Muslims.

But individual Muslims might change, and I think that is what the Pope wants. Individual Muslims might want out of their insane, conquest-and-hate fueled political system masquerading as a religion, and they might, if we hold out a hand, see Christianity as an answer.

If we hate individual Muslims, however, they will never see us as an answer. The approach of the Lord is always to an individual. Christianity conquered pagan Rome not because Christians formed an army and overran it, but because one by one, people saw what Christianity was and moved towards it, and finally there were enough of them so that even the leaders of the people had to acknowledge it and cede to it.

I think BXVI is saying that we have to do this with Muslims, and they will be converted, one by one, by our piety and also our faithfulness to Our Lord even as we are martyred, which many will be.

At the same time, I don’t think he means that non-Muslim societies should sit back and wait to be conquered by Islam. His talk earlier last year gave a lot of intellectual ammunition to Christians, although I notice that, sadly enough, most Christians seem to have missed the point.