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Trips to Lourdes to Cut Time Spent in Purgatory
telegraph.co.uk ^ | 3:16am GMT 06/12/2007 | staff

Posted on 12/06/2007 5:26:23 AM PST by kellynla

Pope Benedict XVI is offering relief from purgatory to Roman Catholics who travel to Lourdes over the next year, the Vatican said yesterday.

Pilgrims to the shrine in south-west France will receive "plenary indulgences" from the Pontiff, which the Church says reduce the time spent being "washed" of sin after death. The indulgences will be available from this weekend until Dec 8, 2008.

The Church teaches that people who do not go directly to heaven must spend time in purgatory, where they can be purified of residual sin.

It is the latest initiative to get more pilgrims to the shrine, famous for the reported healing properties of its water. In August the Vatican opened an airline service offering pilgrims direct flights from Rome to Lourdes.

For those who cannot make the journey to France, the Pope will also grant indulgences to Catholics who pray at places of worship dedicated to the Madonna of Lourdes from Feb 2 to Feb 11. Indulgences may also be granted under special circumstances to people too sick to visit the shrine, the Vatican said.

The offer comes as the shrine prepares to commemorate the 150th anniversary of when the Madonna was said to have appeared to a peasant girl in 1858.

The Pope is expected to visit next year, possibly in September or October.


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholicism; lourdes; pope; purgatory

1 posted on 12/06/2007 5:26:24 AM PST by kellynla
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To: kellynla

Definitely a “Catholic” thing here.

There’s obviously nothing like this mentioned in the Bible.


2 posted on 12/06/2007 5:34:10 AM PST by ConservativeMind
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To: kellynla

“Hey, we have a special on plenary indulgences! But act now, because the sale is over come Dec. 8, 2008!”

“Come see our amazing waters and enjoy a premium upgrade into Heaven.”


3 posted on 12/06/2007 5:38:52 AM PST by ConservativeMind
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To: ConservativeMind

AAAARRGGHH!!!

ONE WEEK after the pope wrote a beautifully written document, debunking the time-accounting way of looking at plenary indulgences, the media reasserts its idiocy.


4 posted on 12/06/2007 6:11:09 AM PST by dangus
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To: kellynla

Consider the source. It figures that The Telegraph, roughly equivalent to our National Enquirer, would put things in such breathlessly oversimplistic terms as possible. One gets the impression that, prior to writing the article, the auther never heard of indulgences, had but the vaguest notion of what Purgatory entails, and still doesn’t know even the background story to what transpired at Lourdes in 1858.

The UK is filled with nothing much more than pagans and Muslims. Christianity there truly has but a remnant status.


5 posted on 12/06/2007 6:21:37 AM PST by magisterium
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To: magisterium
Consider the source.

We should make an interfaith covenant that we RCs won't believe what the MSM say about Protestants if they won't believe what the MSM says about us.

6 posted on 12/06/2007 6:33:46 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Gamecock
Reuters: Pope offers indulgences to Lourdes shrine visitors
The New York Times: Vatican City: Pope To Offer Indulgences To Young
Catholic News: Special plenary indulgence for Lourdes pilgrims
Catholic News Service: Pope OKs plenary indulgence for Lourdes' 150th anniversary
Catholic World News: Plenary indulgence declared for Lourdes pilgrimages


7 posted on 12/06/2007 6:52:24 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("Therefore the prudent keep silent at that time, for it is an evil time." - Amos 5:13)
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To: ConservativeMind; Alex Murphy; Dr. Eckleburg

A few random thoughts on purgatory by a “drunken German monk:”

6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring that it has been remitted by God and by assenting to God’s remission; though, to be sure, he may grant remission in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in such cases were despised, the guilt would remain entirely unforgiven

15. This fear and horror is sufficient of itself alone (to say nothing of other things) to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair.

16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ as do despair, almost-despair, and the assurance of safety.

17. With souls in purgatory it seems necessary that horror should grow less and love increase.

21. Therefore those preachers of indulgences are in error, who say that by the pope’s indulgences a man is freed from every penalty, and saved;

22. Whereas he remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to the canons, they would have had to pay in this life.

26. The pope does well when he grants remission to souls [in purgatory], not by the power of the keys (which he does not possess), but by way of intercession.

31. Rare as is the man that is truly penitent, so rare is also the man who truly buys indulgences, i.e., such men are most rare.

36. Every truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without letters of pardon.

82. To wit: — “Why does not the pope empty purgatory, for the sake of holy love and of the dire need of the souls that are there, if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a Church? The former reasons would be most just; the latter is most trivial.”

89. “Since the pope, by his pardons, seeks the salvation of souls rather than money, why does he suspend the indulgences and pardons granted heretofore, since these have equal efficacy?”


8 posted on 12/06/2007 6:53:20 AM PST by Gamecock (There was only one victorious life.)
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To: dangus

Does this mean that some Catholics are hoping their stay in Purgatory gets to be tea and cookies? You know, kinda like the white collar country club prison?


9 posted on 12/06/2007 7:17:07 AM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: Alex Murphy
I'll see your Luther, and raise you.


10 posted on 12/06/2007 7:29:43 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: magisterium
The Daily Telegraph isn't a tabloid. I actually consider it to be the best of all the British dailies, although that isn't saying a whole lot. That said, it makes everything which you say even more pertinent, because if this is printed in the best of the British papers, goodness only knows what would be written in the others.

The British press has followed, or perhaps that should be led, the British flight into insanity.

11 posted on 12/06/2007 8:08:36 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: Gamecock
A few random thoughts on purgatory by a “drunken German monk:”

I hope he's sobered up by now.

12 posted on 12/06/2007 8:15:31 AM PST by Campion
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To: Gamecock; Lord_Calvinus
And now the truth for lurkers, the curious and all men of good will.

A comprehensive explanation of indulgences, including the basis of the doctrine, the authoritative teaching of the church, who may grant them, the various kinds, the dispositions necessary to obtain one and......yes.....abuses too.

Well worth a read to clear up the misconceptions which constitute 95% of what is written and said on this subject.

13 posted on 12/06/2007 8:20:03 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: Gamecock
16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ as do despair, almost-despair, and the assurance of safety.

When he gets something basic like this so completely wrong, why should his ideas on any other topic seem persuasive?

Purgatory is not despair, almost-despair, kinda despair, sorta despair, or any other kind of despair. The souls in purgatory are completely, perfectly, and constantly assured of their own salvation.

14 posted on 12/06/2007 8:31:56 AM PST by Campion
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To: Mad Dawg

I’m game. My faith, LDS, has been trashed and distorted a great deal since Mitt Romney announced his candidacy. I know the media almost always gets large parts of religion wrong. Incidentally, a long time ago when encyclopedia sets were sold door to door, I remember someone advising a prospective buyer to check the entry on some subject about which they knew a great deal. Depending on how accurate the entry, one could judge the entire work. The same applies to media, as least as far as religious topics are concerned. You have the benefit of my doubt and my respect for Pope Benedict XVI.


15 posted on 12/06/2007 8:35:29 AM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things.)
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To: caseinpoint; Mad Dawg

It is rather ironic that people who no better than to trust the media on current events are more than willing to accept everything they have to say about religious teachings that go back hundreds or even thousands of years. It is a lot like the way the ‘Rats this week have suddenly decided that the intelligence community knows exactly what they are doing because the NIE said what they wanted to hear.

What many fail to realize is that the REAL ENEMY is not the Protestants, Catholics, Mormons or Jews, the REAL ENEMY is Satan and the left is doing his bidding. The left seeks to destroy our traditional Judeo-Christian culture and they are doing systematically. Catholicism has ALWAYS been a primary target of the left simply because of its size; Mormonism has been left alone for a long time because they are not as big a target, all of that has changed because of Romney (back in 2000, if Joe Lieberman had been a Republican, we would have seen all sorts of stories designed to make orthodox Judaism seem bizarre). I truly believe that the ONLY thing that can divide His people is Satan and I truly believe that the time is coming when Catholics, Evangelicals, Mormons and Jews are going to be sharing jail cells simply because we are believers, so we better start getting clear on who the enemy is.


16 posted on 12/06/2007 8:48:14 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

“What many fail to realize is that the REAL ENEMY is not the Protestants, Catholics, Mormons or Jews, the REAL ENEMY is Satan and the left is doing his bidding.”

Theologically speaking, Protestants, Catholics and Jews all use texts written by Yahweh.

Mormons and Muslims do not use use texts written by Yahweh.


17 posted on 12/06/2007 8:52:27 AM PST by fishtank (Fenced BORDERS, English LANGUAGE, Patriotic CULTURE: A good plan.)
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To: caseinpoint
That's an excellent standard for encyclopedias AND for such excrescences as TIME And Newsweak. Let them write about something about which you happen to know a thing or three and you're left with wondering if they ever got anything right in their entire histoire. ( A little French lingo there)

Fear not, I have no intention of believing what the MSM says about your guys.

And isn't my German Shepherd COOL? I like him more and more!

18 posted on 12/06/2007 10:32:20 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: wagglebee
I truly believe that the ONLY thing that can divide His people is Satan and I truly believe that the time is coming when Catholics, Evangelicals, Mormons and Jews are going to be sharing jail cells simply because we are believers, so we better start getting clear on who the enemy is.

Not clear about the time table but I sho' endorse the principle.

19 posted on 12/06/2007 10:33:49 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

I’d say he’s a keeper.


20 posted on 12/06/2007 11:33:54 AM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things.)
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To: Gamecock; Alex Murphy

***The offer comes as the shrine prepares to commemorate the 150th anniversary of when the Madonna was said to have appeared to a peasant girl in 1858.***

I thought she was in her mid 40’s living in England.


21 posted on 12/06/2007 5:08:09 PM PST by irishtenor (History was written before God said "Let there be light.")
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To: marshmallow
You're right. The Telegraph isn't actually a tabloid. I was thinking more of The Sun: real low-brow stuff, complete with the Page 3 girls. Well, from what I've seen of Telegraph articles linked by Drudge recently, most of The Telegraph's stuff filtering over to this side of the pond still reeks of Robin Leach's Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. The Brits seem to have a penchant for becoming absorbed with anything vapid and ephemeral, with the trials and tribs of the idle rich, the (generally) minimally talented entertainment celebrities, the rest of the undeservedly famous, and other people and things the Really Don't Matter. When all of this is done under an umbrella of near-universal agnosticism, it is a recipe for disaster. Even when they try to report on something a little more uplifting, their long-term unfamiliarity with Christendom really shows through, as this article demonstrates. And that circumstance, unfortunately, tends to run all through their press, from The Times down to the most plebeian rag that wouldn't be fit to line a bird cage.
22 posted on 12/06/2007 7:16:34 PM PST by magisterium
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To: magisterium
Correct.

Then factor in television where religion is almost universally ridiculed. British programs, whether comedy or drama, are almost unanimous in their portrayal of clergy as hopelessly naive buffoons, sometimes well intentioned, but almost always dolts of the first order. The only favorable portrayals are reserved for those who have shed the yoke of traditional Christianity, such as The Vicar of Dibley.

23 posted on 12/06/2007 7:31:23 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: dangus

The writer understands as much about Catholic theology as I do about playing ice hockey.


24 posted on 12/06/2007 8:05:56 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: kellynla

The reporter gets this all worded wrong. Nutzos


25 posted on 12/06/2007 9:45:38 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: dangus

**the media reasserts its idiocy.**

You got it right!


26 posted on 12/06/2007 9:47:10 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: kellynla
Since there are two threads ongoing about indulgences -- here is another one.

[What Every Catholic Needs to Know about] Gaining Indulgences [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

27 posted on 12/06/2007 9:49:10 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ConservativeMind

Are indulgences something like “energy credits”? :)


28 posted on 12/06/2007 10:17:06 PM PST by bonfire
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To: irishtenor
I thought she was in her mid 40’s living in England.

I drove by her estate in England a couple of years ago. You really have to go out of your way to get there.

29 posted on 12/06/2007 11:01:34 PM PST by Gamecock (There was only one victorious life.)
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To: ConservativeMind

Amen. Purgatory is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible. The idea of purgatory is one of the traditions of men.


30 posted on 12/06/2007 11:57:21 PM PST by kevinw
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To: kellynla
Trips to Lourdes to Cut Time Spent in Purgatory

One trip to the blood stained cross of Christ will eliminate time any where in eternity except with the Lord! If you don't make that trip...you'll spend eternity in a literal hell. (No tea and cookies...by the way!)

I hope nobody really believes this non-sense, do they? Sounds like something from the golden compass.

31 posted on 12/07/2007 4:37:53 AM PST by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: Campion
The souls in purgatory are completely, perfectly, and constantly assured of their own salvation.

What is your Scriptural basis for this statement? Statements based on ANY thing other than Scripture is based on man, not of God...Therefore if it's based on man, it's based on the flesh, therefore it's based on Satan!

32 posted on 12/07/2007 5:57:13 AM PST by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: WileyPink

bump for later read.


33 posted on 12/07/2007 6:03:56 AM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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