Posted on 12/18/2007 1:52:09 PM PST by NYer
I do not remember seeing the word “Catholic” in the Book of Acts or anywhere else in my KJV.
Which is fine. Keep in mind that the "English language" per se didn't exist until shortly before that time. (Try reading Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in the original Middle English if you don't believe me.)
Venerable Bede translated portions of the Scriptures into Anglo-Saxon back in the 8th or 9th Century.
Hebrews and Gentiles chosen by Christ to spread His Word.
Someone/thing is quite full of themselves.
Gosh, thanks, I guess.
but not your own history.
Okay. Likewise, I'm sure.
The Catholic Church murdered people who disagreed with its teachings.
And Protestants did the same. Take my namesake, St. Edmund Campion, for example, who was hung, drawn, and quartered by Protestants for saying Mass and hearing confessions.
Not to mention that Protestants killed other Protestants who disagreed with their teachings. There was a period of time in England when it was possible to be executed for refusing to deny the Pope's supremacy ... and to be accompanied to your execution by a fellow prisoner, condemned for rejecting transubstantiation!
I don’t really want to get you started but if they weren’t Catholics what were they? I’m truly curious.
Acts 11:26b "...And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
“Venerable Bede translated portions of the Scriptures into Anglo-Saxon back in the 8th or 9th Century.”
these were local attempts with no evidence of Papal authority. If you have a contemporaneous source, please share it.
The Church burned the Wycliff Bibles and Wycliff.
Irrelevant.
To this may be added Theodoret, as next to him, both for antiquity, and for learning. His words be these, "Every Country that is under the Sun, is full of these words (of the Apostles and Prophets) and the Hebrew tongue (he means the Scriptures in the Hebrew tongue) is turned not only into the Language of the Grecians, but also of the Romans, and Egyptians, and Persians, and Indians, and Armenians, and Scythians, and Sauromatians, and briefly into all the Languages that any Nation uses. (Theodor. 5. Therapeut.) So he. In like manner, Ulfilas is reported by Paulus Diaconus and Isidor (and before them by Sozomen) to have translated the Scriptures into the Gothic tongue: (P. Diacon. li. 12.) John Bishop of Sevil by Vasseus, to have turned them into Arabic, about the year of our Lord 717; (Vaseus in Chron. Hispan.) Bede by Cistertiensis, to have turned a great part of them into Saxon: Efnard by Trithemius, to have abridged the French Psalter, as Beded had done the Hebrew, about the year 800: King Alfred by the said Cistertiensis, to have turned the Psalter into Saxon: (Polydor. Virg. 5 histor.) Methodius by Aventinus (printed at Ingolstadt) to have turned the Scriptures into Slavonian: (Aventin. lib. 4.) Valdo, Bishop of Frising by Beatus Rhenanus, to have caused about that time, the Gospels to be translated into Dutch rhythm, yet extant in the Library of Corbinian: (Circa annum 900. B. Rhenan. rerum German. lib 2.) Valdus, by divers to have turned them himself into French, about the year 1160: Charles the Fifth of that name, surnamed the Wise, to have caused them to be turned into French, about 200 years after Valdus his time, of which translation there be many copies yet extant, as witnesses Beroaldus. Much about that time, even in our King Richard the second’s days, John Trevisa translated them into English, and many English Bibles in written hand are yet to be seen with divers, translated as it is very probable, in that age. So the Syrian translation of the New Testament is in most learned men’s Libraries, of Widminstadius his setting forth, and the Psalter in Arabic is with many, of Augustinus Nebiensis’ setting forth. So Postel affirms, that in his travel he saw the Gospels in the Ethiopian tongue; And Ambrose Thesius alleges the Psalter of the Indians, which he testifies to have been set forth by Potken in Syrian characters. So that, to have the Scriptures in the mother tongue is not a quaint conceit lately taken up, either by the Lord Cromwell in England, (Thuan.) or by the Lord Radevile in Polony, or by the Lord Ungnadius in the Emperor’s dominion, but hath been thought upon, and put in practice of old, even from the first times of the conversion of any Nation; no doubt, because it was esteemed most profitable, to cause faith to grow in men’s hearts the sooner, and to make them to be able to say with the words of the Psalms, "As we have heard, so we have seen." (#Ps 48:8)
“Acts 11:26b “...And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”’
You’re being disingenius. There were protestants even then called Christians.
Papal authority was never required; only the authority of the local ordinary.
Bede is a canonized saint, BTW.
The Church burned the Wycliff Bibles and Wycliff.
Wycliff died from a stroke. He was posthumously condemned for heresy and his body was burned. Wycliff's bibles were burned because they were full of heretical notes.
Now you're trying to have your own history.
And it was the bishop of Antioch, some 70 or so years later, who gives us the first recorded use of the term "Catholic Church" to describe the Christian community.
This is historically incorrect:
You may want to try a non-catholic source. There is no known version of the full Bible in English or it’s predecessors before Wycliff. There is evidence of small portions like Psalms and The Gospels being translated earlier, but not by order of the Church. The Church changed its dogma and policies repeatedly over the centuries, but when there were enough people able to read in English, the Church fought to destroy the Bibles.
Maybe to you. What else do you “add to” or “subtract from” the Word?
If you want to talk about “subtracting” from the Word, then you should look up Luther.
The premise of your question is false. It was Martin Luther, after all, who tore entire books out of the Bible.
“And it was the bishop of Antioch, some 70 or so years later, who gives us the first recorded use of the term “Catholic Church” to describe the Christian community.’
For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine “legalized” Christianity at the Edict of Milan in A.D. 313. Later, in A.D. 325, Constantine called together the Council of Nicea, in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire
“Now you’re trying to have your own history.”
unlike Roman Catholic, “protestant” does not signify an organized church but people who disagreed with the orthodoxy of the establishment. As a Catholic you would just have called them heretics.
Anybody care to comment?
That's an absolutely true statement when all the term are properly interpreted in light of what the Bible teaches.
"for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." (2 Peter 1:21)
"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; " (Heb. 1:1,2)
Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Peter, Paul, James, Luke, etc were all members of God's one holy covenant people (Catholic church).
The error, of course, is in believing the "catholic church" is limited to a particular sect with its headquarters in a certain Italian city.
“Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Peter, Paul, James, Luke, etc were all members of God’s one holy covenant people (Catholic church).”
“From the time Jesus left earth (30 AD) until the second half of the second century (150 AD), there was a struggle between two factions. One was what one might call Pauline Christianity and the other Judeo-Christianity. It was only very slowly that... Pauline Christianity triumphed over Judeo-Christianity.”
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