Posted on 02/01/2008 7:52:05 AM PST by Jonathan
A Question to Ponder
It may too late in the process, but I thought we should ask this question: What is God’s view of a woman as the head of a nation? How we answer that question will, of course, betray our system of Bible interpretation; so, let’s ask the text.
In the midst of his pronouncement of awful judgment, Isaiah states as part of that judgment, “As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.”
If this were a simple exception, we might pass it by without asking what it means to the whole of mankind. If the scripture speaks for itself, without our isolating texts, then the evidence is compelling. We would begin by asking some overarching questions: Whom did God choose to write the Scriptures? Who did Christ choose as His disciples? Who are those entrusted with the biblical leadership of the local church? This list is a yard long. The short list that includes Deborah and the great lady of Proverbs 31 is the exception, not the rule.
Don’t Miss the Point
This has absolutely nothing to do with the value God places on women. Godly women are important and are greatly used of our Lord, but always within assigned roles. I thank God every day for my godly mother and my godly wife. During my more than thirty-seven years as a pastor, some wonderful women were placed by God to serve with distinction in those local churches. Their servant’s spirits were an inspiration to everyone who knew them.
The protection and grace extended by God to women is a great witness to the heart of biblical Christianity. The elevation of women to a place of respect, as found in the Bible, is in marvelous contrast to other religions. None of this, however, gives us the answer to the proposed question.
Nor is the question answered by the law of any land. I chuckle when I imagine anyone suggesting that Jezebel was a fine individual just because she was a queen! It is true that God sets up and deposes rulers. Romans 13:1 says clearly that “the powers that be are ordained of God”. This tells us that God is sovereign, but it doesn’t answer the question.
One More Time
So, what is God’s view of a woman ruling a nation? Feminists would say there should be no job limitations for women. Those who isolate texts would say on this issue that it is limited to marriage or to the local church; however, that serves only to reveal their system of interpretation. Philosophers would say that it makes a difference if the woman in question is a godly woman. These approaches only frustrate the discussion, because with them we are still asking man what he thinks; and man is such a flawed source.
We end up right back where we began. What does the text say? It says that in the middle of an awful judgment the people get what they deserve, “and women rule over them”.
“The UK selected a woman to rule, and God declined to rain judgment down on their little green island.”
So you don’t think being taken over my commies and muslims could be any kind of judgement? :)
I did. Thanks.
“Not the subject either - but it is breaking apart as we speak with Scottish devolution and Wales having its own legislature and the EU stripping away the power of Parliament, so I might not use that as a great example of the after effects of female national leaders.”
It’s been 400 years since Elizabeth.
God sure is slow.
I do think. It is judgement rained down upon the moral midgets who preceded her, followed her, and surrounded her.
That God had his hand on her, I haven't any doubt.
As someone said, the only “great French leaders” have been a girl and a Corsican.
We are well past that time.
The Colonies revolted over a threepence per pound tax on tea...
It's interesting to me that in his other letters, Paul separates his personal opinions from God's mandates, usually by saying something like "It is not I, but God, who commands this" or "Not God, but I, Paul." Here, he uses the same sort of language (I do not allow) but stops short of saying that it's God's command.
Just something to think about.
This is like saying that all African American men born through Cain will carry wood indefinately. Please, the Apostle Paul said to use reason. Timothy stated all scripture ‘inspired’ by God. The bible is a wonderful guidebook to outline man’s beginning and where he will ultimately go. A women President is more then fine with me scriptually, just not this women who’s morals are about herself gaining more power (selfish, big no no in the bible) and then redistributing wealth, also shirking basic principles of freedom and accountability, also looked not condoned by the very character and nature of God. Wow, I can read the bible on my own and draw my own conclusions!!!
Ping to read later
Very well said. Also, it reading the bible tells me Christ did not appear to men when first ressurected, He first appeared to two seperate women, then met with the men.
Moses tells us in Genesis that marriage relationship would be disfunctional with women craving their husbands or being co-dependant as part of a curse for man’s bad choices.
The West’s society appears to have lots of intelligent, independant, non co-dependant women meaning our society is slowing but surely going back to our original design of perfection.
True, which is 1 reason I’m not big on Paul or his part of the NT. Too often he gives the impression of himself being the Godhead.
At least, perhaps, he’s telling us it’s not always really GOD saying so. Whereas others would arrogantly imply it is.
Ha! Good one. Never heard it before; but I will be repeating it.
Paul also says that what happen to *THEM* is Written for our admonition (warning) as to what would be again to end this *age*. That was not his opinion and Paul writer of most of the New Testament continuously quoted as did Christ Himself that supposed OLD that the majority of Christians willingly ignore.
Christ said I foretold you alllll things.... and yet Christ also said that He spoke in parables because it was NOT given for all to understand. But we this day have benefit of His explanation privately to His disciple what those parables mean.
“Believe me, If Condoleza Rice was running, She most likely would be getting my vote. “
How could a christian support someone who is trying so desparately to destroy Israel?
“I will bless those who bless Israel and curse those that curse Isreal.”
Yes. And there are Christians who know that Christ has set us free and made us our own king. Who is our true King? Jesus, of course, the King of kings. And a man cannot serve two masters.
Our founding fathers wrote a document which was supposed to serve as a basis for establishing and protecting an environment wherein the equality, rights, and sovereignty of kings is protected. Of course, we refer to ourselves as 'Citizens' for communal purposes, for it establishes our membership in the community of kings and is a testimony and recognition of each other's equality.
Without teaching you the WHOLE Scriptures, Lets just say, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God are One. Jesus said, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father", and "I and the Father are One". ( That's why JW's and Mormons are in error, BTW). When Jesus talked about Sodom and Gomorrah in the Gospels, He's talking about when HE destroyed them for their sin. Just as Jesus created the world, He destroyed it in the Flood and also destroyed Sodom. Some will pick nits and say, uh uh, God did that and Jesus said this. THEY ARE ONE IN THE SAME. So when the dozens of scriptures say homosexuality is wrong, it was God breathed and ergo came from Jesus. I could point to Romans 1 and you would say that's not a Gospel. It was God breathed, through His man, that came directly from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, ergo, from Jesus' mouth.
Many liberal churches use this canard to say abortion is ok and homosexuality is ok cause they can't find Jesus addressing it in the 4 Gospels, like those are the only Scriptures that count. When Jesus said it would be better for those in Sodom than for those that turn you away, He was confirming that Sodom was destroyed for their sin. When Jesus taught in the synagogues, He taught the OT, which He wrote, that condemned homosexuality. The disciples didn't come later and say Jesus changed the OT, They said He fulfilled Scripture. The whole point of the Bible is Genesis, is the same God breathed Word as Revelation. If you hold the position that men wrote the Bible and all you can trust is the red letters in 4 of the Books, then men wrote those also, and what can you trust?
If and when you ever become a believer, you will trust the Bible as God's Word from Genesis to Revelation. When a Prophet or an Apostle said something important enough to be in the Bible, it was from the mouth of God and Jesus was, is, and always will be God. John 1:1. It's all about Jesus, for Jesus, and from Jesus.
This is great and deserves a ping.
For those stuck on what the NT does and does not do to the OT.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
But I’ve been in discussion with people who believe we are sinful by nature because of the Founders (and of course all the rebels) who fought and “dethroned” their rightful rulers.
Of course, I asked how George III could be the rightful ruler if his family had successfully and violently dethroned the previous ruling family.
It’s very circular. If anything, I think then that ALL the world is “sinful” because no government exists which has gone down a continuous line unbroken by usurpation.
Since scripture says that God is the one who sets up governments and kings and tears them down, I would venture to say that no woman could ever lead a nation unless God wanted her there. In the end, it all accomplishes his will.
Having said that, I will also state that I have no intention of voting for the sole woman running for President. It isn't because she is a female, though.
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