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Italian Rabbinical Assembly: Suspension of Dialogue (With Catholic Church)
Rorae Caeli ^ | 2/7/2008 | New Catholic

Posted on 02/07/2008 2:22:50 PM PST by Pyro7480

From the Italian daily Corriere della Sera:

Italian Rabbinical Assembly: "Pause for reflection in the dialogue" with Catholics

The opinion on the change of the Good Friday prayer: "An abandonment of the very conditions for dialogue"

ROME - And now, a rupture. The Italian Rabbinical Asseembly considers necessary a "pause for reflection in the dialogue" with Catholics after the modification of the Good Friday prayer for the Jews.

And it underlines that the modification decided by Pope Ratzinger is "an abandonment of the very conditions for dialogue". The Assembly states so in a note signed by its president, Rabbi Giuseppe Laras.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; dontletthedoorhitya; europeanchristians; goodfriday; jewish; judaism; rabbis; vatican
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We'll see what's next.
1 posted on 02/07/2008 2:22:59 PM PST by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480
< shrug >

And this is what, to me?

2 posted on 02/07/2008 2:23:52 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; sandyeggo; american colleen; Desdemona; ...

Catholic ping!


3 posted on 02/07/2008 2:23:57 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Pyro7480

Big deal.


4 posted on 02/07/2008 2:29:01 PM PST by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Pyro7480
And it underlines that the modification decided by Pope Ratzinger is "an abandonment of the very conditions for dialogue". The Assembly states so in a note signed by its president, Rabbi Giuseppe Laras.

Why even have a dialogue? As Christians we should embrace the Jews as our brothers and Judaism as our spiritual heritage and that should be the end of it. Our job is to spread the Good News of salvation through Jesus Christ and win souls to Christ.

5 posted on 02/07/2008 2:32:32 PM PST by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: ArrogantBustard; Pyro7480

Good! I’m glad there’s one less phony “dialogue” in the world.

Dialogue means listening to what we have to say, as well, and - that’s what we have to say.

I love the way all these people keep holding up JPII as the example of what they wanted. First of all, he’d have been a heretic if he really taught the things they seem to think he taught. Granted, he was occasionally somewhat ambiguous in his statements, and I suspect his idea of “dialogue” was sort of on the photo op level. But if they want a real dialogue, Benedict’s the man; instead, obviously, they didn’t want a real dialogue at all.


6 posted on 02/07/2008 2:32:51 PM PST by livius
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To: livius
It'll be interesting to see what B16 has to say when the muzzies show up.

I can't imagine that they'll like it.

7 posted on 02/07/2008 2:36:45 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Pyro7480
Breaking News: The Pope is Catholic.

Details at 11.

8 posted on 02/07/2008 2:42:34 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("We look for things. Things that make us go." Grebnedlog)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I think this is a hand-picked group of “Muslim scholars” who are considered Western-friendly (at least one is from a Western convert Sufi background) - which, of course, means they are considered heretics by the really dangerous Muslims, and whatever they say to the Pope won’t count anyway.


9 posted on 02/07/2008 2:46:04 PM PST by livius
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To: Pyro7480

Sorry, Rabbi, We are not going to cease to be Christian.


10 posted on 02/07/2008 2:51:53 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: Pyro7480

So, we should change it back?


11 posted on 02/07/2008 2:52:33 PM PST by Campion
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To: Pyro7480

Good riddence.


12 posted on 02/07/2008 2:53:45 PM PST by joebuck
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To: Pyro7480
News Flash !

Yah'shua is a Jew; He is not a catholic !

He will come and reign on the throne of King David in Jerusalem.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua

13 posted on 02/07/2008 2:57:52 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Pyro7480

How about this dialogue from John the Baptist: “Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand”.


14 posted on 02/07/2008 3:01:05 PM PST by Augustinian monk (Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin - Romans 4:8)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

LOL!


15 posted on 02/07/2008 3:05:40 PM PST by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: Pyro7480
Italian Rabbinical Assembly: "Pause for reflection in the dialogue" with Catholics The opinion on the change of the Good Friday prayer: "An abandonment of the very conditions for dialogue"

Sorry, but Catholics don't have an obligation to change their prayers to sooth the wounded egos of rabbis. Having a diolgue with these malcontents was a mistake in the first place.

16 posted on 02/07/2008 3:09:01 PM PST by Hacksaw (Congrats to the Giant killing Giants! (I also support the tiger.))
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To: XeniaSt
Yah'shua is a Jew; He is not a catholic !

Jesus was born a Jew and remains ethnically Jewish, but He founded the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

17 posted on 02/07/2008 3:22:20 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: XeniaSt
Yah'shua is a Jew

You think he would object to a prayer that prays for His own people to recognize him as their Messiah?

18 posted on 02/07/2008 3:24:04 PM PST by Campion
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To: Pyro7480
Oddly, Italian Muslims are breaking off dialogue with Italian Jews. Sandro Magister reports: On the contrary, he is a convinced promoter of a positive dialogue with Judaism and Christianity. In 2005, he publicly contested the fatwa, the juridical sentence issued on the television screens of al-Jazeera by one of the most influential world leaders of fundamentalist Islam, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, banning all dialogue with the Jews. The question has been raised again in recent days in Italy, when suddenly, because of an order that come from the al-Azhar University in Egypt, the representatives of the Grand Mosque of Rome had to cancel a visit – the first ever – to Rome's Jewish synagogue, scheduled for January 23rd.
19 posted on 02/07/2008 3:50:46 PM PST by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: Campion
YHvH's larger plan of salvation, where His People are blinded for a time,
in order to bring His salvation to the gentile nations.
NAsbU Romans 11:15 For if their ( His Chosen People )
rejection is the reconciliation of the world,
what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

And their ultimate salvation after a period of blindness is guaranteed by YHvH's covenant :
NAsbU Romans 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren,
to be uninformed of this mystery--
so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--
that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until
the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written
(in Isaiah 59),
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."

27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."

28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake,
but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;

29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


shalom b'shem Yah'shua

20 posted on 02/07/2008 4:09:19 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Pyro7480
Jesus was born a Jew and remains ethnically Jewish, but He founded the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Nope....your friend Constantine did that....and the Church he founded bore absolutely no resemblance to the First Century Christian Church of the Apostles. Still doesn't....and never will!

21 posted on 02/07/2008 4:25:31 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

The notion that Constantine “founded” the Catholic Church is nothing but a bigoted fantasy promoted by the likes of Dan Brown. Legalizing Christianity isn’t the same as founding a church.


22 posted on 02/07/2008 4:28:49 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: livius
Good! I’m glad there’s one less phony “dialogue” in the world.

Oh please don't punish them so. Give them one more chance. I'll make sure they behave this time. They'll even eat the crumbs that fall off your table. /sarc.

23 posted on 02/07/2008 4:31:26 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: ArrogantBustard
Ok...and...? What? Should I care?
24 posted on 02/07/2008 4:35:10 PM PST by arielguard (It's lost on me.)
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To: XeniaSt

You really should reread what Saint Paul wrote about the Judaizers, and check yourself.


25 posted on 02/07/2008 4:36:29 PM PST by arielguard (It's lost on me.)
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To: Diego1618

So you agree that the gates of Hell did indeed overcome the Church! Good, at least I know what you believe, and why we should all ignore you.


26 posted on 02/07/2008 4:38:51 PM PST by arielguard (It's lost on me.)
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To: Diego1618
Nope....your friend Constantine did that....and the Church he founded bore absolutely no resemblance to the First Century Christian Church of the Apostles. Still doesn't....and never will!

What foolishness! Jesus Christ founded his Church on earth and it is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, commonly known as the Roman Catholic Church. If you're not a Catholic but consider yourself a Christian know that you are seperated from the One True Church and all the rationalizations in the world, all the illogical assumptions and revised history you can conjure up won't change that fact.

27 posted on 02/07/2008 4:42:02 PM PST by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: irishjuggler
The notion that Constantine “founded” the Catholic Church is nothing but a bigoted fantasy promoted by the likes of Dan Brown. Legalizing Christianity isn’t the same as founding a church.

Well....like I said in my post....it's obvious Our Lord did not found the Catholic Church as it bears no resemblance to the Church He left us in the scriptures....so just what did Constantine do?

Who's Dan Brown?

28 posted on 02/07/2008 4:43:30 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: pgkdan
Jesus Christ founded his Church on earth and it is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, commonly known as the Roman Catholic Church.

Balderdash!

29 posted on 02/07/2008 4:45:16 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: arielguard
So you agree that the gates of Hell did indeed overcome the Church! Good, at least I know what you believe, and why we should all ignore you.

Do you know what the Greek translation for "Gates of Hell" is?

I thought not!

30 posted on 02/07/2008 4:47:28 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618
Balderdash!

Isn't that Greek for "boardgame"? :-)

31 posted on 02/07/2008 4:48:42 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Isn't that Greek for "boardgame"? :-)

I think you're right!

32 posted on 02/07/2008 4:51:19 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Pyro7480
To all my Jewish friends and relatives. When the balloon goes up, most all Christians, Catholic whatever, will bleed with you.

The good news is, it's already been decided in our favor. So this problem of dogma is superfluous.

5.56mm

33 posted on 02/07/2008 4:59:15 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: Diego1618
bears no resemblance to the Church He left us in the scriptures....so just what did Constantine do?

He issued the Edict of Milan in 313, ending the persecution of Christians. Are you aware that the very "scriptures" on which you rely weren't compiled and canonized by the Catholic Church until 405?
34 posted on 02/07/2008 5:03:31 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: Diego1618
it's obvious

ROFL!!!!!!

Obvious????? Sez you ...

I say it's obvious that the Church Jesus founded in the Gospels, the Church in the Acts of the Apostles, the Church to which Peter, Paul, James, John, etc. wrote their letters was and is what we now call the Catholic Church.

Who are you to claim that I'm wrong? By what authority would you presume to do so?

35 posted on 02/07/2008 5:04:17 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: arielguard
Should I care?

Probably not ... it is mildly amusing, though.

36 posted on 02/07/2008 5:07:29 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Diego1618

Duck and weave, while raising the shield of arrogance, and striking with the sword of humiliation. That is not an answer.


37 posted on 02/07/2008 5:10:40 PM PST by arielguard (It's lost on me.)
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To: Diego1618
Oh, Cheez Whiz. Constantine wasn't even a Catholic, let alone the "founder" of Catholicism. He was for most of his career a pagan, but he is appreciated because aided the Church in a manner somewhat analogous to the way the pagan kings Cyrus and Darius aided the Jewish people. (And no, Cyrus was not the founder of Judaism.)

Constantine became a catechumen when he realized he was dying, and he chose the Arian bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia as his baptizer. You realize that the Arians were the major opponents of the Catholics, right? Well, then.

If you'd like to corkscrew this around for your own purposes, go ahead, have a bash at it. There's a real market for ecclesiastical fiction. The Da Vinci Code was quite a money-maker, I hear.

38 posted on 02/07/2008 5:11:17 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("We look for things. Things that make us go." Grebnedlog)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Agreed.


39 posted on 02/07/2008 5:12:19 PM PST by arielguard (It's lost on me.)
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To: irishjuggler
Are you aware that the very "scriptures" on which you rely weren't compiled and canonized by the Catholic Church until 405?

Please.......The scriptures I study were canonized by the Council of Jamnia (90 A.D.) and Our Lord Himself as stated in [Luke 24:44]. Notice....He does not include the spurious books of the Septuagint which automatically eliminates the Roman Church from any claim of Canon authority!

As far as the New Testament....the Apostles canonized each others work which is very easy to decipher. Sorry.....you folks were a day late....and a dollar short..... as usual.

Did you ever wonder about [Romans 3:1-2]?

40 posted on 02/07/2008 5:25:46 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618
Please.......The scriptures I study were canonized by the Council of Jamnia (90 A.D.) and Our Lord Himself as stated in [Luke 24:44]. Notice....He does not include the spurious books of the Septuagint which automatically eliminates the Roman Church from any claim of Canon authority!

Do you find it interesting that Jesus and his brother Jude used a book that was neither canonized by Jamnia nor by NT canonizers. The book of "Enoch" where the concept of the "elect" comes from and also a book that whoever wrote the NT book of Jude quotes from?

41 posted on 02/07/2008 5:30:31 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: ArrogantBustard
I say it's obvious that the Church Jesus founded in the Gospels, the Church in the Acts of the Apostles, the Church to which Peter, Paul, James, John, etc. wrote their letters was and is what we now call the Catholic Church.

Your Church bears no resemblance to this New Testament Church described in scripture. Even with your claim of being able to change things.....as you go along....it's still silly to even claim any similarity. Most people see this. Unfortunately for you....you don't. You have been led to believe fairy tales!

Who are you to claim that I'm wrong? By what authority would you presume to do so?

I have the authority of scripture on my side. Wanna' debate?

42 posted on 02/07/2008 5:31:59 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: arielguard
Duck and weave, while raising the shield of arrogance, and striking with the sword of humiliation. That is not an answer.

Offer up some scripture to defend your position and I will read it.

43 posted on 02/07/2008 5:33:56 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Oh, Cheez Whiz. Constantine wasn't even a Catholic, let alone the "founder" of Catholicism. He was for most of his career a pagan.

This would be nominal for a founding father of your organization.

If you'd like to corkscrew this around for your own purposes, go ahead, have a bash at it.

You folks always get upset when someone calls your outfit for what it is....and always has been. Defend it with scripture and we'll see what we'll see!

44 posted on 02/07/2008 5:38:35 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Do you find it interesting that Jesus and his brother Jude used a book that was neither canonized by Jamnia nor by NT canonizers.

Jude is basically talking of "A" prophecy of Enoch....not the "Book".

45 posted on 02/07/2008 5:44:37 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

1 Timothy 3:15

May the Lord bless you in your zeal. I will post nothing further to you.

Forgive.


46 posted on 02/07/2008 5:53:26 PM PST by arielguard (It's lost on me.)
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To: Diego1618
As far as the New Testament....the Apostles canonized each others work which is very easy to decipher.

As you say, PLEASE... During the years 100-400, there were so many versions of everything floating around, and so many disagreements about the canon that nothing was "easy to decipher" and nothing canonized itself. It took the synods of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century to sort everything out.

On a related note, I have a question for you... Most of the criticisms of that you anti-Catholic folks make against the Church are equally applicable to our Eastern Orthodox brethren, yet you folks never seem to worry about them. Why is that?
47 posted on 02/07/2008 5:53:53 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: arielguard
May the Lord bless you in your zeal.

Thank you for your blessing. I would bless you in your search for truth as well.

48 posted on 02/07/2008 5:56:43 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618
Oh, for heaven's sake, I've got to finish the dishes and then go to bed. OK, then:

Check this out. Let me know when you're done.

Good night, everybody.

49 posted on 02/07/2008 5:58:27 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("We look for things. Things that make us go." Grebnedlog)
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To: Diego1618
Jude is basically talking of "A" prophecy of Enoch....not the "Book".

Well. Judes prophecy was taken from the book of Enoch. The same book found intact by Charles bruce in 1800's Ethiopia.

Compare please.

Jude.... 14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Enoch...Chapter 2, verse 1...Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him.

Pretty clear to me.

50 posted on 02/07/2008 5:59:26 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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