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Locked on 02/20/2008 6:54:12 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior |
Posted on 02/16/2008 3:13:15 PM PST by restornu
sorry don’t understand you question!
“And did the Montanists, the Marcionites, Paulicians, Donatists, Caprocrations and Cathari also receive the “witness of the Lord” as they all claimed?
And that is just the “short” list.”
This is a partial list of groups who claimed that Christianity was in error and “they” were the ONLY true “church”. Seen any of them around lately?
>I know the world consensus is up set with this but who are in Charge here some Men in 325 AD our Jesus Christ himself!
Please elaborate! Did a small group of men conspire to make Jesus into God, instead of merely a god? Reading too much Dan Brown lately?
>Now I know many for what ever reason feel differently but there are about 13 millions of us who did receive a witness from the Lord!
And all the Muslims, Hindu, Buddhists, Daoists, Shinto, etc. all stand up and say the same thing. There are certainly more of each of these religions who claim to have a divine revelation. So how are we to judge your witness?
Popcorn placemarker ... you seem to have closed some mouths!
““Anti-Mormons” are not the ones that started this fight way back in the 1820’s when some dude from the backwoods of New York claimed to have found golden plates and then started attacking all other churches.”
Worth repeating.
Worth repeating!
***It is a common myth that anti-Mormon attacks have completely overwhelmed the intellectual position of Latter-day Saints, leaving us with nothing but blind faith in “warm feelings” we get about the Church.***
“Anti-Mormons” are not the ones that started this fight way back in the 1820’s when some dude from the backwoods of New York claimed to have found golden plates and then started attacking all other churches.
****
If you read carefully it was not some dude from upstate NY who made those comments, it was the Lord himself who was once again preparing to restoring his Church on earth and needed to get a few things straight before proceeding.
Isa. 29: 13.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
I know the world consensus is up set with this but who are in Charge here some Men in 325 AD our Jesus Christ himself!
Now I know many for what ever reason feel differently but there are about 13 millions of us who did receive a witness from the Lord!
*********
BTW dmw, tell me how other Churches were attacked?
Did the LDS take over other churches pulpit, ride around in white sheets, did they tar and feather other church members, did they call them heretics, incite a community to hate them, shoot at them, burn down their houses, rape and kill their children and than run them off of their land, exterminate them?
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
Anti-Mormon = traditional, orthodox, trinitarian Christian, period.
The LDS would call that a disagreement on doctrine, but for some they feel the need to be continually inhospitable over it!
LOL excuse men this man had nothing to do in build up the Lord’s kingdom he was baptized Feb 25,1844 and so he was only a member a few months before Joseph Smith was killed.
any thing the man did, he did it on his own and had nothing to do with the Lord’s annoited servants the Man had no authority in the priesthood of the Church.
Try again!:)
There’s nothing I find less interesting than the topic of what other people believe. What possible difference could it make to any sane person?
Oh yes, I don’t care what your astrological sign is or your shoe size either.
How refreshing it would be to find and support a candidate purely on his or her ability to DO THE JOB.
A few Strangites, there are many more:
George Miller (b. November 25, 1794, d. August 27, 1856
Baptized by John Taylor, 1839. Ordained a high priest by Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith, 1840. Bishop in Nauvoo, 1841-1844. President of the high priests’ quorum, 1841-1844. Brigadier general in the Nauvoo militia, 1842-1844. “And again, verily I say unto you, my servant George Miller is without guile; he may be trusted because of the integrity of his heart; and for the love which he has to my testimony I, the Lord, love him. . . . Let no man despise my servant George, for he shall honor me” (D&C 124: 20-21). Member of the council of fifty, 1844. Supposedly one of the few people receiving the full Nauvoo endowment while Joseph Smith was still alive. Besides Brigham Young, one of the of the first to go through the Nauvoo temple endowment, 1845. Ordained by James Strang to be a “prince, privy counselor, and general-in-chief” in the kingdom, and served 1850-1856. Presided over general assembly in absence of James Strang. Elected sheriff of Mackinac and then Manitue County, Michigan. Died shortly after James Strang was killed.
Reuben Miller
Joined the church, 1843. Called to be a bishop in Norway, Illinois, 1844. Besides Brigham Young, one of the first to go through the Nauvoo temple endowment, 1845. Sent by Brigham Young to debate James Strang, but converted by James Strang instead even after consulting with the quorum of twelve apostles for their defense, 1846. Published the first pamphlet defending James Strang, 1846. President of the Voree stake, 1846. Testified that he knew by revelation that Strang was appointed.
Arthur Milliken and Lucy Smith Milliken
The brother-in-law and sister of Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith. Joined the church in 1835, lived in Kirtland, was wounded in Missouri persecutions at the battle of Crooked River. Signed statement: “This is to certify that the Smith family do believe in the appointment of J. J. Strang.” Signed statement, “This is to certify that we, the undersigned members of the Smith family, fully accord with the sentiments expressed above,” including “I am satisfied that Joseph appointed J. J. Strang. It is verily so.”
Noah Packard
Baptized by Parley P. Pratt, 1832. Ordained elder by Joseph Smith,1832. Gave enormous sums of money to the church for debts and building the Kirtland temple. Acquainted with Joseph Smith. Ordained high priest, 1836. Served on the Kirtland high council. Mentioned in D&C 124:136. Served as counselor to Don C. Smith, Joseph’s brother, the president of the high priests’ quorum. In Nauvoo, 1840. Lived in Wisconsin, 1846-1850. Present when James Strang was crowned king in Michigan, 1850.
Hiram Page
One of the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon. Married to a daughter of Peter Whitmer. Baptized, 1830. Settled in Jackson County, Missouri, 1831. Mentioned in D&C 28. A high priest in Far West, Missouri, 1838. Hiram Page wrote to James Strang in early 1846 indicating that David Whitmer, John Whitmer, and Hiram Page received a tract about his succession claims and “read it with joy and gladness,” and “all the witnesses of the Book of Mormon living in that region received the news with gladness,” and addressed James Strang “as a prophet of God to tell them what to do.” In a second letter from April 1847, they also invited James Strang to come to Missouri and get the “church records, and manuscript revelations.” He died in 1852. His son, Philander, was a documented supporter of James Strang as late as 1854.
John E. Page
Baptized and ordained by Ebenezer Page, 1833. An elder with Joseph Smith in Kirtland, 1835. Ordained one of the seventy, 1836. Ordained into the quorum of twelve apostles, 1838. Authored Mormon hymn book, 1839. Authored missionary tracts, 1841, 1843, and 1844. Mentioned in D&C 118:6; 124:129. Member of the council of fifty. Edited church newspapers at Pittsburgh, 1843-1844, and at the death of Joseph Smith. Besides Brigham Young, one of the of the first to go through the Nauvoo temple endowment, 1845. Chosen president of the quorum of twelve apostles under James Strang, 1846-1849. Edited the Gospel Herald, 1846-1849. “. . . often asserted that he knew by revelation of God that Mr. Strang was a prophet, and the true successor of Joseph Smith in the Presidency of the church of the living God.”
Leonard Rich
Walked from Kirtland to Western Missouri with Joseph Smith, 1834. Joseph Smith wrote: “I would remember Elder Leonard Rich, who was the first one that proposed to the brethren to assist me in obtaining wood for the use of my family, for which I pray my heavenly father to bless him . . . and I shall ever remember him with much gratitude for his testimony of benevolence and respect.” Served on the Kirtland high council, 1835. Ordained one of the seven presidents of seventy, 1835. In the quorum of high priests at Kirtland, 1837. Sustained James Strang at a conference in Kirtland, Ohio, and became president of the stake at Kirtland, organized by James Strang, 1846.
So what is your point it is no secret that some are not diligent in their walk with the Lord and will sooner or later fall away!
The Lord expect loyalty and that is reading your scriptures and keeping your covenants one can not rest on their laurel and expect to remain in the Kingdom, slothful servants will loose ground, fade away, or worst!
So the Strangites have fallen away or is the opposite the truth?
BTW, I am not of any Mormon faith or their derivatives.
When Joseph Smith was kill there was a power struggle by those who thinking was too worldly, but when the quorum of the 12 got togather it was shown how the work of the Lord would be continued and Brigham Young receved the calling.
So as one see that the true Church of the Lord did prosper while other ventures faded into obscurity.
I think you mean the “Book of Abraham”, but your point remains.
Hugh Nibley: The Father of Mormon Scholarly Apologetics ...
You may be interested to learn Dr. Nibley's credibility was seriously damaged when he authenticated Joseph Smith's translation of an Egyptian papyrus which was put forth as the Book of Abraham.
The award winning documentary, The Lost Book of Abraham, shown HERE, cites a number of prominent scholars who disagree with Smith and Nibley. Dr. Robert K. Ritner, Professor of Egyptology at the University of Chicago, is cited most frequently in the film and takes an unequivocal position denying the validity of Smith's purported translation. I invite you to review Ritner's vitae HERE.Dr. Nibley's credibility took another blow when, as explained HERE, he authenticated the Anthon Transcript, a sheet of paper believed to contain copies of the characters which appeared on the gold plates of the Book of Mormon. This document was later proven to be fabricated by Mark Hofmann.Interestingly, as noted HERE and HERE, Dr. Nibley would later recant much of his endorsement, but the damage to his reputation was done.
Dr. Nibley made other pronouncements which impaired his value as a Mormon apologist. For example, in 1947 he published the following demonstrably false statement:
Yet of all churches in the world only [the Mormon Church] has not found it necessary to readjust any part of its doctrine in the last hundred years. – Hugh Nibley, No, Ma'am, That's Not History, page 46.Still other examples of Dr. Nibley's lack of discernment can be found HERE.
In light of the above, you would probably be better served in future posts by not citing Dr. Nibley as an established expert.
It might interest you to know that according to sources listed HERE, the Mormon Church is not growing nearly as fast as many Christian denominations, and may in fact be facing declining membership.
Further, as explained HERE, Mormonism is not Christian.
Interestingly, I posted some information on His Excellency just yesterday. You may want to review it HERE.
You should also add to your list of noted Strangites the names of Joseph Smith's widow Emma, his four sons, his mother Lucy Mack Smith, his brother William, and his sisters (only one of whom you noted). All of these individuals left the Utah Mormons and proclaimed (for a while at least) this sect the one true Mormon Church and King James Strang the only valid Prophet, Seer and Revelator successor to Joseph.
Finally, I noted your reference to His Majesty's royal title. As near as I can tell, the Mormon Prophet was actually recognized by the U.S. Congress as a king – the only person so honored in our country's history. I would be glad to share the story upon request.
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